“Yahweh” or “Jehovah”?

[Chioke Lin]

20 hours ago, Peter Carroll said:

both prove the point they start with a j and are written in english ,for another tranlation of them use the language of that translation .

Then what would prevent anyone from accepting Yoshua or Yesus in English form. Does Yesus in English make any sense? Does it make any sense that Yoshua in the Old Testament refers to Moses assistant and not Jesus? 

[BroRando]

On 1/13/2022 at 6:45 AM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Yes indeed, but I for one do not hide behind the JW org. At least you all know why I left the Org and why I dislike it so much. 

Whomever it is, they just seek attention, so yes could easily be a GB member .  But they, like all of us, will be judged by Yeshua in due time. Meanwhile she/he/it could be frightening to new members here. 

Peace and love to all, John 

Interesting how (John) claims his/her/it/they is a made up and false name since it contains the lettter "J".

• No Jehovah
• No Jesus 
• No Jerusalem
• No John

Isn't that RICH... JOHN slandering the Name of Jehovah and Jesus but not taking account of her own name...  Isn't that right Joanna?  Can anyone say HYPOCRITE? 

JOHN [English equivalent of Jehohanan, meaning “Jehovah Has Shown Favor; Jehovah Has Been Gracious”].

JOANNA (Jo·anʹna) [shortened feminine form of Jehohanan, meaning “Jehovah Has Shown Favor; Jehovah Has Been Gracious”].

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

Oh dear. Are you all pretending that you do not use any foreign words ? 

I think one of @Arauna's favourites is M. O. modus operandi which is Latin. 

Modus operandi is a Latin term used in English-speaking circles ............. 

Then there is 'cul-de-sac' meaning dead end road. It's French but English speaking people use the term. 

So why would anyone not want to use the correct name for Almighty God, YAHWEH.

And why not YESHUA for the Son of God.

English speaking people do not have to use only English words. 

[Chioke Lin]

33 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

So why would anyone not want to use the correct name for Almighty God, YAHWEH.

I don't disagree with your logic. Just, know that Yahweh is also a made up English word. Yud-hey-vav-hey. How did the name become Yahweh? It can also be composed as Yod-hey-vav-hey. 

How did the "tetragrammaton" develop the W if it wasn't for the English form of the alphabet? Can you answer that?

To me, it was formed as they refined the sound, thus transforming certain letters. This is why, the "Waw" came just a tad latter, after they eliminated the "a" from the "Vav" to become "Vv" or VV=W.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

On 7/14/2022 at 2:19 PM, BroRando said:

Interesting how (John) claims his/her/it/they is a made up and false name since it contains the lettter "J".

Hello rambo, I see you are being your normal JW self. Being as nasty as ever. Reminds me of a certain other religion being called the religion of 'peace'. 

By the way, I was born in 1949, and the letter J did exist then, but I don't expect you to think that deeply. 

The letter J was first distinguished from 'I' by the Frenchman Pierre Ramus in the 16th century, but did not become common in Modern English until the 17th century, so that early 17th century works such as the first edition of the King James Version of the Bible (1611) continued to print the name with an I.

 

https://www.christianity.com/jesus/is-jesus-god/names-of-jesus/yeshua-yashua-y-shua-or-jesus-which-is-right.html

 

Quote 

Origin of the name "Jesus" - Hebrew or Greek?

Since the entire New Testament is written in Greek, not Hebrew, it suggests that God does not consider it inappropriate to use a name or title for Christ in keeping with that of another language or culture. The New Testament repeatedly calls the Hebrew Messiah by Greek names, several of them.

The inspired writings of the apostles refer to Yashua with other linguistic renderings pronounced differently. Yeshua and the Jewish apostles frequently quoted from the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures, which was frequently read and studied by Jews in the New Testament era.

Yashua vs Yeshua

Yashua is not an undisputed form, but due to the absence of Hebrew vowels is variously rendered YESHUA or Y'SHUA or YAHSHUA. My messianic friends mostly call Him Yeshua. But I am happy with any of these since they refer to the same person, my beloved Savior.

When I spent time in China the believers did not call the Messiah either Yashua or Yeshua or Jesus. There are more than two hundred Chinese dialects and each one has a different pronunciation. In Mandarin, the two characters for Christ's name are read "YE-SU," in Cantonese "YE-SOU," in Taiwanese "YA-SAW," and in Hakka "YA-SU."

And isn't it just lovely to see how @Arauna approves of rambo's insulting comments. Doesn't it just show how this 'loving' false religion works. By their works you will know them. Yes indeed, by their false religious ways, lies and insults, we do know them. 

[Chioke Lin]

25 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

The letter J was first distinguished from 'I' by the Frenchman Pierre Ramus in the 16th century, but did not become common in Modern English until the 17th century, so that early 17th century works such as the first edition of the King James Version of the Bible (1611) continued to print the name with an I.

*** w70 6/1 p. 343 A New Bible Translation—Does It Honor God? ***
However, regarding the name “Jehovah,” The Argus of Cape Town, South Africa, said on March 9, 1970: “The man who has been most intimately concerned with the revision [New English Bible], Prof. Sir Godfrey Driver, . . . said: ‘There never was such a word [as Jehovah] until the French scribes invented it in 1520 or whenever it was. It is a monstrosity.’”
But French scribes did not invent the name “Jehovah.” It was in use centuries before, Raymond Martin’s Pugio Fidei using it in the form “Jehova” in the year 1270. Yet, because of such negative attitudes toward this name, the introduction to The New English Bible, on page xvi, states:
“The present translators have retained this incorrect but customary form [Jehovah] in the text of passages where the name is explained with a note on its pronunciation (e.g. Exodus 3.15) and in four place-names of which it forms a constituent element; elsewhere they have followed ancient translators in substituting ‘LORD’ or ‘GOD’, printed as here in capital letters, for the Hebrew name.”

Before that, A monk used the (i) in the beginning to form the name of God. I believe it was around the 11 century when the crusaders roamed.
 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

11 minutes ago, Chioke Lin said:

How did the "tetragrammaton" develop the W if it wasn't for the English form of the alphabet? Can you answer that?

No i can't. I am 72 years old and my concentration / deep research ability has long gone. 

( The letter 'W' started during the Middle Ages, with the scribes of Charlemagne writing two 'u's' side by side, separated by a space. At that time the sound made was similar to 'v. ' The letter appeared in print as a unique letter 'W' in 1700. )

When I started being brainwashed by JWs (in the 1960's) I was told that the tetragrammaton was YHWH. Having done a little research I find that most people agree with YHWH.  I also read for myself in JW literature way back then, that the leaders of the religion believed that God's name was Yahweh, but that the name Jehovah was more acceptable and that is why they used it. 

The Leaders of your religion said it was YHWH, and they said it was YAHWEH. Many many people that have studied the Scriptures will agree it is YHWH and Yahweh. 

But, your religion were frightened to be honest. They had NO faith to use God's true name. Or, they were controlled by a wicked spirit to use the false name instead of the true name. 

It now seems that the ancient Egyptians, that had no reason to lie, gave proof of God's name being Yahweh. 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

http://www.yhwh.com/jehovah.htm

A Detailed History of the name "Jehovah"

Researched (and greatly appreciated) for The Church of Yahweh By Jeroen Ashton

In 1278 a spanish monk, Raymundo Martini, wrote the latin work PUGIO FIDEI (Dagger of faith). In it he used the name of God, spelling it Yohoua. Later printings of this work, dated some centuries later, used the spelling JEHOVA.

Soon after, in 1303, Porchetus de Salvaticis completed a work entitled VICTORIA PORCHETI AVERSUS IMPIOS HEBRAEOS (Porchetus' Victory Against the Ungodly Hebrews). He spells God's name IOHOUAH, IOHOUA and IHOUAH.

Then, in 1518, Petrus Galatinus, a Catholic priest born in the late 1400's, published a work entitled DE ARCANIS CATHOLICAE VERITATIS (Concerning Secrets of the Universal Truth) in which he spelled God's name IEHOUA.

Now, the direct answer to your question: the name "Jehovah" first appeared in an English BIBLE in 1530, when William Tyndale published a translation of the Chumash (the first five books of the Bible). In this, he included the name of God, usually spelled IEHOUAH, in several verses (Genesis 15:2; Exodus 6:3; 15:3; 17:6; 23:17; 33:19; 34:23; Deuteronomy 3:24. Tyndale also included God's name in Ezekiel 18:23 and 36:23 in his translations that were added at the end of THE NEW TESTAMENT, Antwerp, 1534), and in a note in this editon he wrote: "Iehovah is God's name... moreover as oft as thou seist LORD in great letters (except there be any error in the printing) is is in Hebrew Iehovah." (Please note as I told you previously, there was no "J" in English at this time; the J is a product of a stylized I; thus giving us the current Jehovah rather than the Old English Iehovah. The "u" used in the above names is also a reminder that there was no "v" in Old English, as you can read David in the original King James version was written "Dauid".)

In 1534 Martin Luther published his complete translation of the Bible in German, based on the original languages. While he used the German "Herr" (Lord or Sir) for the Tetragrammaton, in a sermon which he delivered in 1526 on Jeremiah 23:1-8, he said, "The name Jehovah, Lord, belongs exclusively to the true God."

Subsequently, Jehovah was used not only in the "Authorized" King James version of 1611, but the Spanish VALERA version of 1602, the Portugese ALMEIDA version of 1681, the German ELBERFELDER version of 1871, and the American Standard Version of 1901. It appears that the Jerusalem Bible was the first one to used Yahweh instead of Lord and Jehovah.

---

ENCYCLOPÆDIA BRITANNICA 

(used without permission)


Yahweh 

the God of the Israelites, his name being revealed to Moses as four Hebrew CONSONANTS (YHWH) CALLED THE TETRAGRAMMATON. AFTER THE EXILE (6TH CENTURY BC), and especially from the 3rd century BC on, Jews ceased to use the name Yahweh for two reasons. As Judaism became a universal religion through its proselytizing in the Greco-Roman world, the more common noun elohim, meaning "god," tended to replace Yahweh to demonstrate the universal sovereignty of Israel's God over all others. At the same time, the divine name was increasingly regarded as too sacred to be uttered; it was thus replaced vocally in the synagogue ritual by the Hebrew word Adonai ("My Lord"), which was translated as Kyrios ("Lord") in the Septuagint, the Greek version of the Old Testament.

The Masoretes, who from about the 6th to the 10th century worked to reproduce the original text of the Hebrew Bible, replaced the vowels of the name YHWH with the vowel signs of the Hebrew words Adonai ("Lord", editor) or Elohim ("God", editor). Thus, the artificial name Jehovah (YeHoWaH) (emphasis ours, ed.) came into being. Although Christian scholars after the Renaissance and Reformation periods used the term Jehovah for YHWH, in the 19th and 20th centuries biblical scholars again began to use the form Yahweh. Early Christian writers, such as Clement of Alexandria in the 2nd century, had used a form like Yahweh, and this pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton was never really lost. Other Greek transcriptions also indicated that YHWH should be pronounced Yahweh.

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[Chioke Lin]

1 minute ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

No i can't. I am 72 years old and my concentration / deep research ability has long gone.

This is why I leave the deep thoughts to the professionals. I get you, there are many that want to debate the true name of God. God is God. Just showing respect to that fact and call him by his deserved sovereign name, which ever you choose without disrespecting his sovereignty, that's all he asks of us. For us to believe in Christs words, and to know God's truth, will come to pass.

Do we need to show God our appreciation and praise? We definitely do. Can it be done as ONE, no it can't. Jesus formed Christianity to mean unity. The same unity God spoke of for his chosen people. There definitely needs to be a "oneness" within that unity. 

8 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

When I started being brainwashed by JWs (in the 1960's) I was told that the tetragrammaton was YHWH. Having done a little research I find that most people agree with YHWH.  I also read for myself in JW literature way back then, that the leaders of the religion believed that God's name was Yahweh, but that the name Jehovah was more acceptable and that is why they used it. 

Eventually, it was transformed that way for easy understanding. Don't get me wrong, The YHWH or THVH is appropriate. 

[Chioke Lin]

9 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

n 1278 a spanish monk, Raymundo Martini, wrote the latin work PUGIO FIDEI (Dagger of faith). In it he used the name of God, spelling it Yohoua. Later printings of this work, dated some centuries later, used the spelling JEHOVA.

Thanks for confirming the Watchtower article. Perhaps the monk I was thinking of in the 11th century is actually "Raymundo Martini" of the 12th century, far before the 16th century.

[Arauna]

@Patiently waiting for TruthI would not quote a second rate English newspaper from 1970 or a French person as a scholar on the Hebrew language.......or as an authority. My maiden name was De Villiers (French Huguenot stock) from South Africa.  I think that says it all. Especially, since there are early churches in South Africa and Europe which has the name Jehovah engraved on it. 

Only Dutch churches in South Africa were allowed as it was a Dutch colony and they wanted the French to integrate.  They had to go to the Dutch church. It sounds like some wild theory. 

 

[Arauna]

15 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

IEHOUAH

This is early English. Ie was pronounced as Ye.... or Je.