How a Christmas song would lead me to believe that our 1914 teaching must be right after all.

[Arauna]

25 minutes ago, xero said:

I hear the whiney sound "I was stumbled!" I want to dump a bucket of ice water over

I hear you - some people have the victim syndrome and blame others  - but how do we know which ones are the truly vulnerable? We have to act and behave in ways so that our behavior is always like that of Jesús.

[Witness]

10 hours ago, Anna said:

At Armaggedon, only those people who have rejected the truth about Jesus and God will be destroyed.  People cannot reject something they  have never heard of, or don't understand.

An article from 1987, that goes back a ways!  I think you would probably admit that everything you would like to believe about your Armageddon, can be found in the Wt articles and sifted to suit your conscience.  Although, at the Annual Convention, Stephen Lett numbered the “wicked” against the number of JWs as “900 to one”.  By calling them all wicked, he is essentially labeling all outside of the organization as having no chance of being saved at Armageddon.  They have been judged by your leader. 

 Many people whole-heartedly believe in Jesus and God, but refuse the message of JWs.  God reads those hearts, all hearts, individually.  The message of JWs does not determines who is saved and who is not saved.

“For what business is it of mine to judge outsiders? Don’t you judge those who are inside?”  1 Cor 5:12

Paul is talking about the anointed of the Body of Christ.  It is the message to JWs in the last days, specifically the anointed - God’s chosen people - that needs to be noticed and heeded. (Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:9; Matt 10:23; 1 Pet 4:17,18; Rev 18:4-8)

 

 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

10 hours ago, Anna said:

I don't think people in the slums of Calcutta have been spoken to by a JW..... at least not to the point of being able to make an informed decision*

 

10 hours ago, Anna said:

It makes a point that: Very few are interested enough to want a Bible study. Making a living and bettering their station in life seem to be the only things on their mind. That, coupled with minimal, if any, education, makes it very difficult for them to accept the good news.

I would be interested in your clarification on the similarities and differences between:

being able to make informed decision (about good news represented by JWs

and

to accept the good news (also represented by JWs)

What can save a man? Informed consent or faith in something divine?

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, xero said:

To me this is why I don't sweat it when someone says that I gave a "bad witness". I try not to, but it's going to happen and happen repeatedly. We all have patterns. I just keep trying and relax while doing so. Straining to me or OCD-like obsessive behavior like somehow I held the life of another person in my hands is spiritual narcissism in my view. The same kind of spiritual narcissism I see in apostates. If the GB screws up, so what? They'll figure out how they screwed up and do better next time. I doesn't change me or my responsibility to take charge and responsibility for my own actions or beliefs. You want to know who's engaging in idolatrous creature-worship? It's apostates. They imagine the organization is equal to Jehovah or Jesus and they aren't. We aren't Catholics with a holy see and a pope. Jehovah may be using the organization, but it's not infallible, nor do they have any urim and thummim. They have the bible, just like the rest of us. It isn't "disrespectful" to take note of that. The path to apostasy in my view is an over-reliance on human organizations as if these were Jehovah or Jesus. Organizations are necessary, but not sufficient. They can't point the way, but we individually have to make decisions. We CAN disagree and make our own conscientious decisions and we should. True that some of us in my view want to ride the coat-tails of others, but eventually they'll be bumped off by time and circumstance to stand on their own biblical legs.

One can certainly notice the emergence of one particular generation (various age groups) of JWs that has reached a stage of maturation in which they are ready to tear down the “Berlin Wall” in their organization. At least or primarily on a personal level, while remaining within that same “wall,” more physically than spiritually. Many of your comments here give such an impression and confirmation.
Of course, it is "your" organization and you have the right to it as it is and as you support it and change or confirm it.

[Anna]

3 hours ago, xero said:

Anytime I hear the whiney sound "I was stumbled!

You know when they verbalize it, it means they are offended, and if they've done something bad, they need someone to blame. Those who are really stumbled are rarely aware they've been stumbled.

[Anna]

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

 

I would be interested in your clarification on the similarities and differences between:

being able to make informed decision (about good news represented by JWs

and

to accept the good news (also represented by JWs)

What can save a man? Informed consent or faith in something divine?

I would say they are the same in that particular context. If someone is uneducated and only interested in basics, they are not going to be open to other ideas to be able to make an informed decision and therefor accept or not accept the good news. But Jehovah can read hearts, so he knows how the person might have reacted if their circumstances were different....

[Anna]

2 hours ago, Witness said:

Stephen Lett numbered the “wicked” against the number of JWs as “900 to one”.  By calling them all wicked, he is essentially labeling all outside of the organization as having no chance of being saved at Armageddon.  They have been judged by your leader. 

He is "essentially labeling"? I don't think so. He is only going by what Jesus said; that many more are on the road to destruction than those on the road to life. And no, he wasn't judging anyone, he leaves the judging to Jesus, as all of us do.

2 hours ago, Witness said:

Many people whole-heartedly believe in Jesus and God, but refuse the message of JWs.  God reads those hearts, all hearts, individually.  The message of JWs does not determines who is saved and who is not saved.

Yes, we agree God reads hearts, and yes, He will determine who is saved, regardless of what we think. For those who whole heartedly believe in Jesus there is a warning;  “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works* in your name?’ And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’"

AND "Furthermore, everyone hearing these sayings of mine and not doing them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand".

I had a class mate at school who believed in Jesus whole heartedly. She slept around and smoked.

 

[xero]

You know if Jesus didn't want us to judge whether or not to bother with talking to some people he wouldn't have told us not to cast our pearls before swine.  BUT I suppose SOME people are pig-whisperers.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

15 hours ago, Pudgy said:

I would like to apologize for EVERYTHING I accused PwfT of

Thank you and apology accepted. 

[Arauna]

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Informed consent or faith in something divine?

People can make anything divine if they want to.  They will even kill you in the name of god and think they are doing God a favor.  Neither is it about consent.    

It is about accepting the reality that Jehovah is the creator and his son provided the ransom.  It is about accepting that his written Word is reality and the history and prophecies are absolutely true and those not yet fulfilled - will come true.  It is about actively living the life of a Christian which includes upbuilding the congregation and mixing with fellow believers in  unselfish love.... and most of all:- to preach the kingdom which has already started ruling. To recognize the brothers of Christ and the job they are doing. To build up the entire body of Christ and start to live the life in pure worship which you hope to do forever. 

[Witness]

4 hours ago, xero said:

Anytime I hear the whiney sound "I was stumbled!" I want to dump a bucket of ice water over that person's head.

Why not just hold their hand over an open flame?  To be stumbled spiritually by a spiritual leader is a grave sin.  It is spiritual abuse.  We don't respond with more abuse.  

"Who is weak, and I am not weak? Who is made to stumble, and I do not burn with indignation?"  2 Cor 11:29

GWT - "When anyone is weak, I’m weak too. When anyone is caught in a trap, I’m also harmed."

 

[Pudgy]

When I mentioned to someone “I have been stumbled……“, I just hate it when they get a hammer and strips of bamboo and drive it under my fingernails, or take some vise grip pliers and pull off my kneecaps.
 

I just hate that, don’t you?

AND CATS! ….. don’t get me started about CATS!