Has the Governing Body of Jehovah's WItnesses Put Themselves in the Place Of Jesus Christ as Mediator Between God and Men?

[TrueTomHarley]

19 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I note that you didn't answer any of my questions 

How many of them do you want answered?

We went round and round on a prior thread and you just repackage your questions and run them through again.

The verse says: ‘Taste and see that Jehovah is good.’ If you tasted and saw that he was bad, what can I say? Check your taste buds. But you can just as easily say it to me.

It may be that you should be praying to The LORD. It is the GB that brings God’s name to the fore, nearly everyone else seeks to bury it, and you have made clear that you don’t trust the GB as far as you can spit.

[JOHN BUTLER]

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

How many of them do you want answered?

We went round and round on a prior thread and you just repackage your questions and run them through again.

The verse says: ‘Taste and see that Jehovah is good.’ If you tasted and saw that he was bad, what can I say? Check your taste buds. But you can just as easily say it to me.

It may be that you should be praying to The LORD. It is the GB that brings God’s name to the fore, nearly everyone else seeks to bury it, and you have made clear that you don’t trust the GB as far as you can spit.

Oh dear once again you twist what i say. I've never said Jehovah is bad. However i will say for definite that the JW Org and it's GB, DO NOT OWN GOD. If you cannot separate God from the Org then it's you that have a problem.  I'm saying it's the GB that have put themselves in place of Jesus Christ as mediator. I pray to God only through Jesus Christ. It was Jesus, as a perfect man, that gave his life willingly not the GB. However if you wish to serve the GB and therefore worship them, it is your choice. 

As for my many questions which you did not answer. It was in answer to your comment about 'no crime being committed. Well if all I've read is true, in fact if only half of it is true, then plenty of crimes have been committed. 'Crimes' against Jehovah God, making the Organisation a disgusting place and therefore bringing reproach  on God Himself. 

Making God's name known, then dragging it through the dirt, is that good in your eyes ? 

[Anna]

5 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I pray to God only through Jesus Christ.

As far as I know every one of Jehovah's Witnesses does that.

5 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

  I'm saying it's the GB that have put themselves in place of Jesus Christ as mediator.

You are saying that indeed, and I am sorry you got that impression because the GB don't view themselves that way. So what gives you that impression?

[JOHN BUTLER]

2 minutes ago, Anna said:

As far as I know every one of Jehovah's Witnesses does that.

You are saying that indeed, and I am sorry you got that impression because the GB don't view themselves that way. So what gives you that impression?

Because JW congregants are frightened of upsetting the elders, and the elders are frightened of the GB. The GB make up rules so that they have power over others. The elders enforce those rules. The shunning thing for instance. Totally against the word of God and against the things Jesus taught.  A person may think they have 'friends' in the Organisation but if that person decides to leave the Org' (because the Org is doing things wrong) then they find they no longer have any of those 'friends'. But if you asked any of those ex 'friends' what scripture they are following by not talking to you, they would not have a clue. They just do as they are told by the elders, who in turn just past on the messages from the GB...  It appears that the Elders also try to tell the marriage mates of those that leave the Org' not to discuss scriptural things with the one who has left. So where do the elders get this instruction from ? 

The Child Abuse problem brought about because the GB continuously told the congregants not to report it to the police or the outside authorities. And the GB told the elders not to tell the congregants that there were / are Pedophiles within those congregations. However the GB were secretly collecting information about said Pedophiles from at least 1997 onward.  

Jesus himself said it would be very bad for anyone that causes the stumbling of one such young child. My my, how much stumbling has the GB caused, and proof of it is now very clear Earthwide. .. Unless you bury your head in the sand and do not know the truth about such things.... 

And as I've said before the GB, 8 men, most of whom are American, also say that they are the only ones that God is working through and that the others of the anointed are not being used in that way. Then to add insult to it, the GB say that some of those who say they are anointed, are mentally ill. Has Jesus given the GB the right to judge others ? I think not. 

Tell me, what do you think ? When Jesus was killed was it on a stake or a cross ? If on a stake, where were his hands ? How many nails were used on his hands ? Where were these nails placed ?  Thomas said that he would not believe until he saw the 'holes' (plural) in the HANDS (plural) where the NAILS (plural) went through. However the GB had the picture made of Jesus hanging on a stake with ONE NAIL through both wrists.  You might say it's a small point but the scripture says at Luke 16 v10 "The person faithful in what is least is faithful also in much.... "

Your GB are not faithful to God, nor do they follow the footsteps of Jesus Christ. 'By their works you will know them'. Yes indeed. 

[JOHN BUTLER]

9 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

How many of them do you want answered?

We went round and round on a prior thread and you just repackage your questions and run them through again.

The verse says: ‘Taste and see that Jehovah is good.’ If you tasted and saw that he was bad, what can I say? Check your taste buds. But you can just as easily say it to me.

It may be that you should be praying to The LORD. It is the GB that brings God’s name to the fore, nearly everyone else seeks to bury it, and you have made clear that you don’t trust the GB as far as you can spit.

 

[TrueTomHarley]

6 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

It appears that the Elders also try to tell the marriage mates of those that leave the Org' not to discuss scriptural things with the one who has left. So where do the elders get this instruction from ?

You mean that your wife will not discuss these things with you? Whatever is wrong with that woman?

I hope you dial this stuff down a few notches at home. You cannot be easy to live with. If you go at it at home as you go at it here and your wife decided one day that she just couldn’t take it anymore, I’m sure you would assign the GB full blame for that, too.

[Anna]

1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Because JW congregants are frightened of upsetting the elders, and the elders are frightened of the GB. The GB make up rules so that they have power over others. The elders enforce those rules. The shunning thing for instance. Totally against the word of God and against the things Jesus taught.  A person may think they have 'friends' in the Organisation but if that person decides to leave the Org' (because the Org is doing things wrong) then they find they no longer have any of those 'friends'. But if you asked any of those ex 'friends' what scripture they are following by not talking to you, they would not have a clue. They just do as they are told by the elders, who in turn just past on the messages from the GB...  It appears that the Elders also try to tell the marriage mates of those that leave the Org' not to discuss scriptural things with the one who has left. So where do the elders get this instruction from ? 

The Child Abuse problem brought about because the GB continuously told the congregants not to report it to the police or the outside authorities. And the GB told the elders not to tell the congregants that there were / are Pedophiles within those congregations. However the GB were secretly collecting information about said Pedophiles from at least 1997 onward.  

Jesus himself said it would be very bad for anyone that causes the stumbling of one such young child. My my, how much stumbling has the GB caused, and proof of it is now very clear Earthwide. .. Unless you bury your head in the sand and do not know the truth about such things.... 

And as I've said before the GB, 8 men, most of whom are American, also say that they are the only ones that God is working through and that the others of the anointed are not being used in that way. Then to add insult to it, the GB say that some of those who say they are anointed, are mentally ill. Has Jesus given the GB the right to judge others ? I think not. 

Tell me, what do you think ? When Jesus was killed was it on a stake or a cross ? If on a stake, where were his hands ? How many nails were used on his hands ? Where were these nails placed ?  Thomas said that he would not believe until he saw the 'holes' (plural) in the HANDS (plural) where the NAILS (plural) went through. However the GB had the picture made of Jesus hanging on a stake with ONE NAIL through both wrists.  You might say it's a small point but the scripture says at Luke 16 v10 "The person faithful in what is least is faithful also in much.... "

Your GB are not faithful to God, nor do they follow the footsteps of Jesus Christ. 'By their works you will know them'. Yes indeed. 

Oh dear, you do have a lot of issues going on. Nothing that I haven't heard before though. I am sorry you feel you were being controlled by (7) 8 men. That's not a good place to be mentally, or spiritually. I won't try and refute anything you said because I feel you are not in an objective frame of mind anyway, and a "person convinced against this will is of the same opinion still".  As regards whether Jesus died on a cross or a stake, frankly I don't care, I really don't think it's important, in my opinion.

[JOHN BUTLER]

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

You mean that your wife will not discuss these things with you? Whatever is wrong with that woman?

I hope you dial this stuff down a few notches at home. You cannot be easy to live with. If you go at it at home as you go at it here and your wife decided one day that she just couldn’t take it anymore, I’m sure you would assign the GB full blame for that, too.

My wife discusses all the meetings, that she attends, with me. She tells me about the talks and the W.T study articles. She tells me whom she has spoken to before and after the meeting. It's quite a fun occasion over lunch, listening to her. She is not baptised but still the elders try to tell her not to discuss spiritual matters with me. I can now see why she has never wanted to get baptised. I agree with her feelings which are this :- When a person dedicates themself to God it is a personal dedication, an agreement between the person and God. However when a person gets baptised as a JW, the JW Org see it as that person becoming a member of their religion and accepting their rules...  It gives the JW org control over a person, as is easily seen by the way it treats people. 

As for me 'going on' at my wife, no i don't. I mention things when she asks, and if any new news arrives concerning the Org or Child Abuse then i will tell her. But on a day to day basis we have too much other stuff to talk about and to do.. She obviously sees me reading the Bible daily but I don't talk about it to the point of being annoying. 

[JOHN BUTLER]

33 minutes ago, Anna said:

Oh dear, you do have a lot of issues going on. Nothing that I haven't heard before though. I am sorry you feel you were being controlled by (7) 8 men. That's not a good place to be mentally, or spiritually. I won't try and refute anything you said because I feel you are not in an objective frame of mind anyway, and a "person convinced against this will is of the same opinion still".  As regards whether Jesus died on a cross or a stake, frankly I don't care, I really don't think it's important, in my opinion.

Why did you put 7 in brackets ? The GB comprises of 8 men. 

And you are a typical JW in your response. It's not me that has issues, it's the JW Org. But as I've said you people bury your heads in the sand as you are frightened to respond to the truth about the GB and the Org.  Quite funny though how you copy the GB, the GB say that some of those of the anointed have mental issues. 

And once again regarding the death of Jesus, you do not have a clue. However the GB thought it important enough to change what Thomas said in God's word, to something untrue.  

For a JW you don't seem very well informed, not even knowing how many men in the GB. 

As for me feeling i was controlled by those 8 men, i didn't. I felt the Org was controlled by them. By that i mean that the elders were controlled by the GB and the elders then controlled the congregants. I was clever enough not to share my feelings with others in my congregation, because that would have given the elders an excuse to disfellowship me. The reason they would have used is "Causing a division within the congregation". So i calmly emailed as many elders as possible and told them i was leaving the JW Org. Then i had the meeting to confirm it... However the GB gives orders that the elders are not allowed to say someone has left, so the elder can only say that so and so,  'is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses.. As so many people are leaving the Org the GB do not want the congregants to know that a person chooses to leave.  I was also clever enough to tell a few 'brothers' that i was leaving before i left so that they would know i wasn't disfellowshipped. But even so they are too frightened to talk to me because of GB rules.  If only you could understand that the JW Org is run by fear not love. Just as the Pharisees did it back in the time of Jesus.  

[Anna]

48 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Why did you put 7 in brackets ? The GB comprises of 8 men. 

It was 7 until not long ago, when Kenneth Cook joined this year. I was assuming your disenchantment with the GB is not recent, therefor my comment about your feelings of being controlled was in reference to the 7 members.

48 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Quite funny though how you copy the GB, the GB say that some of those of the anointed have mental issues. 

I never said the anointed had mental issues, nor you, but your reasoning has put you in a unhappy state of mind. That is what I meant.

 

48 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I was clever enough not to share my feelings with others in my congregation, because that would have given the elders an excuse to disfellowship me. The reason they would have used is "Causing a division within the congregation". So i calmly emailed as many elders as possible and told them i was leaving the JW Org. Then i had the meeting to confirm it... However the GB gives orders that the elders are not allowed to say someone has left, so the elder can only say that so and so,  'is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses..

I hate to tell you, but if it was announced that you are no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses, then you have been disfellowshipped. And by the way, the reasons for disfellowshipping are never disclosed.

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

If only you could understand that the JW Org is run by fear not love. 

At last, I think you have put your finger on the problem. That Anna is nothing but a big chicken. ?

[Anna]

6 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

That Anna is nothing but a big chicken.

Hey! You leave me out of this!