Has anyone ever been disfellowshipped AFTER they died for taking an unapproved fraction blood transfusion ?

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

If a Brother or Sister in good standing in the Congregation goes into the hospital, and agrees to a whole blood transfusion, and dies anyway, can they be disfellowshipped post mortem, and what about the funeral arrangements?  ( I have heard of this being done, but never explained....)

Can they have a funeral at the Kingdom Hall?

Let's say a Brother or Sister in good standing in the Congregation  goes berserk, and commits some crime, and either dies by misadventure, or gets shot by police ....

Can they have a funeral at the Kingdom Hall?

Considering such questions is like a submarine on the surface, at night, in the fog .... firing torpedoes randomly into the darkness, to see what lights up.

.... sometimes survival depends on having the right answer about "What is out there?".

[Evacuated]

On 5/3/2018 at 2:28 PM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

can they be disfellowshipped post mortem

Romans 6:7 "For the one who has died has been acquitted from his sin."

The use of a Kingdom Hall for a funeral would depend on circumstance so there isn't a blanket rule.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

How about if the circumstances were exactly as I outlined, above ..... ?

[Witness]

5 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

How about if the circumstances were exactly as I outlined, above ..... ?

Doesn't appear to be anything in the "Shepherd the Flock of God".  Maybe a "seasoned" elder would know.

[Witness]

5 hours ago, Gone Away said:

Romans 6:7 "For the one who has died has been acquitted from his sin."

If this was true in all cases, there wouldn’t be a “judgment day”. 

Paul is talking about becoming alive in Christ. 

“What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? ² Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? ³ Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? ⁴ Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.  Rom 6:1-4

 

Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, ⁹ knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. ¹⁰ For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. ¹¹ Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.  Rom 6:8-11

[Evacuated]

On 5/5/2018 at 9:56 PM, Gone Away said:

Romans 6:7 "For the one who has died has been acquitted from his sin."

A consideration of the context of this expression shows that the apostle Paul was discussing spirit-anointed Christians alive at that time. While still alive, they had been baptized into Christ Jesus and received the valid prospect of heavenly life. In order to be anointed with holy spirit and accepted as spiritual sons of God, they had to die to their former course in life as imperfect humans, have their sins forgiven by God and have human perfection imputed to them.

However, in view of the words at Romans 6:23 "For the wages sin pays is death", it is clear that Paul's use of a natural and actual illustration (in v7) in connection with the consequence of sin would enable it to correctly be said that "one who has died has been acquitted from his sin".

It may well be that some today still think that punishing someone twice for the same crime is an acceptable carriage of justice. They are in company with those who feel that God is justified in keeping alive and punishing forever in literal fire those who have sinned no more than a human lifetime (just a few minutes in Jehovah's timescale).

Such fleshly viewpoints confirm the apostle's words at 2 Cor.14-15.

On 5/5/2018 at 10:00 PM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

How about if the circumstances were exactly as I outlined, above ..... ?

As for extreme case scenario funerals, these would have to be subject to the consideration of those locally in consultation with the relevant Branch office. The circumstances outlined would be have to be relevant to the locality at the time they occur, in respect of the individuals involved. Hence, the only ones who could realistically respond on that would be the local Service Committee, and in view of the hypothetical nature of the question, I would highly suspect the response would be......................................................Silence!!
 

 

[Witness]

On 5/10/2018 at 12:17 AM, Gone Away said:

A consideration of the context of this expression shows that the apostle Paul was discussing spirit-anointed Christians alive at that time. While still alive, they had been baptized into Christ Jesus and received the valid prospect of heavenly life. In order to be anointed with holy spirit and accepted as spiritual sons of God, they had to die to their former course in life as imperfect humans, have their sins forgiven by God and have human perfection imputed to them.

However, in view of the words at Romans 6:23 "For the wages sin pays is death", it is clear that Paul's use of a natural and actual illustration (in v7) in connection with the consequence of sin would enable it to correctly be said that "one who has died has been acquitted from his sin".

If I am overstepping my comprehension of your words, correct me.  I am having trouble pinpointing your understanding of Rom 6:23 and 6:7

Rom.8:2 reads; "And because you belong to Christ, the power of the life-giving spirit has freed you from the power of sin that leads to death."

Losing one’s physical life, whether anointed or not does not acquit us of our sins.  Jesus’ death abolishes our sins, but only if we submit to his “life-giving spirit”. 

It is true that anointed ones must present their bodies as a “living sacrifice of praise”, leaving everything to follow Christ, even one’s physical life; and becoming one with Christ through the anointing is the "valid prospect" of eternal life.  Yet, to God and Christ, all of us are determined as “dead” or “alive”, according to our actions in this life. 

“When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the obligation to do right. And what was the result? You are now ashamed of the things you used to do, things that end in eternal doom.  But now you are free from the power of sin and have become slaves of God. Now you do those things that lead to holiness and result in eternal life. 

²³ For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord.”  Rom 6:20-23

It isn’t often that the rest of verse 23 is associated with…”the wages of sin is death”…in the Watchtower. This death means no longer having the possibility of living, ever.   

“Once you were dead because of your disobedience and your many sins.  You used to live in sin, just like the rest of the world, obeying the devil—the commander of the powers in the unseen world. He is the spirit at work in the hearts of those who refuse to obey God.”  Eph 2:1,2

"For the living know that they will die, (lose their physical life)
   but the dead know nothing;
they have no further reward,
    and even their name is forgotten.
  Their love, their hate
    and their jealousy have long since vanished;
never again will they have a part
    in anything that happens under the sun."  Eccl 9:5,6

The spiritually “dead” will not be resurrected to eternal life. 

“But now, as to whether the dead (all who have lost their physical life) will be raised—haven’t you ever read about this in the writings of Moses, in the story of the burning bush? Long after Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob had died, God said to Moses,^[e] ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’^[f] 27 So he is the God of the living, not the dead (unrepentant sinners). You have made a serious error.”  Mark 12:26-27

 

 

[Guest]

En 3/5/2018 a las 7:28, James Thomas Rook Jr. dijo:

Can they have a funeral at the Kingdom Hall?

I can't provide an answer but I'd like to share a similar experience. 

I had an old JW aunt who was going to be at a Judicial Commitee for smoking. She got very sick for several diseases and had to be interned in the hospital out of our town. After being released from hospital, her daughter took her to a nursing home managed by Catholic nuns with no right to  visits, only the names on the daughter's list ?

The old woman never faced the judicial committee and when died her funeral  was not allowed at the Kingdom Hall as per elders instructions. 

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

That is a toughie ..... I have written several different takes, and had to delete them, because the reasoning was not sound.