Did the WTS or GB predict that the UN would replace the League of Nations?

[JW Insider]

Sometimes, the Watchtower publications have pointed back to a time when the Watchtower predicted World War One (WWI) in 1914 and then also predicted that the United Nations would rise up to replace the League of Nations. These two "predictions" have even been paired together and presented nearly back-to-back in our publications. They were even brought up again at the 2014 convention and the 2009 convention. The reason the Watchtower has reviewed these two ideas from our history is probably already obvious and clear, and it has been clearly stated, too.

One of the most recent reviews of the history of Jehovah's Witnesses contains very similar claims, and is found in one of the videos, now also available on tv.jw.org: https://tv.jw.org/#en/mediaitems/VODOrgHistory/pub-ivfa2_x_VIDEO

These online transcripts appear fairly accurate:

• Video Transcript Jehovah's Witnesses Faith in Action Part 1 Out of Darkness.pdf
• Video Transcript Jehovah's Witnesses Faith in Action Part 2 Let the Light Shine.pdf

Here is the relevant part about 1914:

—Geoffrey W. Jackson—

• They realized that 1914 had a significance,

—Gerrit Lösch—

• When World War I broke out in July, they felt vindicated and it strengthened their faith in the Bible, and in JehovahÂ’s prophetic Word. Also, it enhanced their trust that Jehovah was using Brother Russell and his friends to explain truth to others.

—Anthony Morris III—

• Just looking at the sign of the times that Jesus told us to look at is enough, but it's still significant that they could pinpoint that year. That's phenomenal.

Here is the relevant part about the UN and League of Nations:

—Narrator—

• . . . And soon, they would boldly proclaim a Bible prophecy that pointed to the outcome of that war.

——Chapter 4: "Taught By Jehovah"——

—Narrator—

• The year was 1941. Having taken the lead for 25 momentous years, J. F. Rutherford had become seriously ill and was about to make his final public appearance. . . . The second World War was raging. Some felt that these events could lead directly into Armageddon. In spite of this, in 1942, Nathan H. Knorr—the one next appointed to take the lead among Jehovah's Witnesses—spoke at a convention about a Bible prophecy that indicated that significant events had to occur first.

—Knorr (reenactment)—

• This international war is not 'the battle of the great day of God Almighty.' Before Armageddon comes, the Scriptures show, a peace must come.

—John Wischuk—

• There was no peace on the horizon, and yet we said, "Peace—Can It Last?"

—Narrator—

• Knorr centered attention on Revelation 17:8, which indicates that a figurative wild beast would come into existence, would cease to exist, but then would come back to life. Knorr then drew his listeners' attention to the defunct League of Nations.

—Knorr (reenactment)—

• The League is in effect in a state of suspended animation and needs to be revived if it is ever to live again. It has gone into the abyss of inaction and ineffectiveness. It "is not." Will the League remain in the pit? Again the Word of God gives answer: The association of worldly nations will rise again.

—Narrator—

• That association did rise again three years later as the United Nations.

—Anthony Morris III—

• They didn't know it was going to be called the United Nations, and we don't make that claim. But they knew it was coming out.

 

[Should be noted that Morris is claiming something that they "KNEW" in advance but he is also correcting a common claim that not only did Knorr predict the rise of the League of Nations three years ahead of time, but that he even used the term "United Nations." As one person writes on a website "Knorr prophesied in 1942 that the League of Nations would rise out of the abyss. Knorr used the expression 'United Nations.' How could he have known the exact name of the new incarnation, when it wasn't established until 1945?"]

Witnesses got these ideas about a correctly predicted prophecy from an article published a few years later under Knorr's administration in 1960. These quotes should be compared with the actual transcript of the speech Knorr made on September 20, 1942, which was made available as a booklet, and can be found here: http://www.strictlygenteel.co.uk/booklets/peace.html

The July 15, 1960 Watchtower, page 444, said this:

• "In 1942 the “faithful and discreet slave” guided by JehovahÂ’s unerring spirit made known that the democracies would win World War II and that there would be a United Nations organization set up."

You can also see a reference to the 1942 event in the Revelation book (p.248) on WOL at jw.org: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101988034

You can also read the following about it in the April 15, 1989 Watchtower, p.14 https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101988034

• By divine providence, JehovahÂ’s Witnesses received enlightenment on that mystery in 1942. . . . Nathan H. Knorr, president of the Watch Tower Society, gave the public talk, “Peace—Can It Last?” Therein he reviewed Revelation 17:8, . . . . Was that Bible-based forecast fulfilled? Truly it was! In 1945 the international “wild beast” emerged from its abyss of inactivity as the United Nations.

See also the Kingdom Come book  kc chap. 17 pp. 162-173 and and interesting version of events found in a 1981 Watchtower about why this "insight" was given w81 12/15 pp. 28-30

The Proclaimers book states it like this on page 192-3 (  jv chap. 14 pp. 188-201 )

• This time, it involved the United Nations, successor to the League. While World War II was still under way, in 1942, JehovahÂ’s Witnesses had already discerned from the Bible, at Revelation 17:8, that the world peace organization would rise again, also that it would fail to bring lasting peace. This was explained by N. H. Knorr, then president of the Watch Tower Society, in the convention discourse “Peace—Can It Last?” Boldly JehovahÂ’s Witnesses proclaimed that view of the developing world situation.

In 1993 the idea was stated as follows:

• “The Disgusting Thing”
• 12, 13. What was “the disgusting thing,” and—as foreseen by the faithful and discreet slave—when and how was it reestablished?
• ¹² When the end of the second world war was in sight, there was another development. “They will certainly put in place the disgusting thing that is causing desolation.” (Daniel 11:31b) This “disgusting thing,” which Jesus also mentioned, had already been recognized as the League of Nations, the scarlet-colored wild beast that according to Revelation went into the abyss. (Matthew 24:15; Revelation 17:8; see Light, Book Two, page 94.) It did this when World War II broke out. However, at the New World Theocratic Assembly of JehovahÂ’s Witnesses in 1942, Nathan H. Knorr, third president of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, discussed the prophecy of Revelation 17 and warned that the beast would rise again from the abyss.
• ¹³ History bore out the truth of his words. Between August and October 1944, at Dumbarton Oaks in the United States, work was begun on the charter of what would be called the United Nations. The charter was adopted by 51 nations, including the former Soviet Union, and when it came into force on October 24, 1945, the defunct League of Nations in effect came out of the abyss.

There are several more examples, but this should suffice. I am struck by how often the point is emphasized that these were Knorr's words, "his words" and that they were a Bible-based forecast "foreseen" and "discerned" and "known" in advance through "divine providence" and "enlightenment" and men being "guided by Jehovah's unerring spirit." This is an odd focus on the insights and discernment of men. These expressions are also dangerously presumptuous in that they are so often applied to the one or two times when it seems something was foreseen correctly, but there is no balanced way of discussing the reasons that literally dozens of predictions were made incorrectly and have been dropped as "old light."

But, as many Witnesses already know, there is something even deeper that is wrong with these claims of accuracy in discernment. The claims are inaccurate! It turns out that this was not really even predicted in advance. A close look at the original transcript of Knorr's talk actually solves the mystery of why he used the term United Nations in his speech. It's because he gave the speech AFTER official work on the United Nations had already begun.

[Anna]

8 hours ago, JW Insider said:

It's because he gave the speech AFTER official work on the United Nations had already begun.

Well that solved a mystery then! There's always a simple answer ?

[JW Insider]

16 hours ago, Anna said:

Well that solved a mystery then! There's always a simple answer ?

I referenced the idea of solving a mystery because the Revelation book includes this event under the heading (Chapter 34): "AN AWESOME MYSTERY SOLVED."

I listened to Knorr's talk recorded in Cleveland, found here (https://archive.org/details/PeaceCanItLastByNathanKnorr)while following along in the "Peace -- Can it Last?" booklet which says inside the booklet that it is a transcript of the talk. It is not actually a transcript, although it's possible that it was intended as one. The booklet states:

• The above is the text of the speech "Peace — Can It Last?" delivered by the president of the WATCH TOWER SOCIETY, Sunday, September 20, 1942, at the public meeting of the New World Theocratic Assembly. This unique Assembly included more than eighty simultaneous conventions in cities in America, British Isles, Sweden, Central and South America, West and South Africa, and Hawaii. The president spoke at the key convention in Cleveland, Ohio, and his speech was conducted by a network of telephone lines direct to like conventions in fifty-one other cities in the United States, besides being radio-east over WBBR. The combined attendance in the United States at the lecture was 126,000. The speech is here published in behalf of the millions of persons of good-will who did not hear.

But the transcript contains many items of interest that were either skipped by Knorr, or were not part of the original transcript he read from. I'll mark in red the portions that were skipped in the speech.

 

• But the war precedes a peace; and in a radio address at Philadelphia, broadcast around the world, concerning postwar leadership, the attorney general of the United States said (July 3, 1942): "It seems to me a wholesome thing that men are thinking in 1942 of ways to win a peace, and acting on their thoughts — yes, even now, while the war is yet to be won. It means that at last the realization has come to us that world war and world peace cannot be dissociated as parts of the same great upheaval. The problems of peace and of war are interdependent." (New York Times, July 4, 1942) Shortly thereafter the ex-president of the nation said in a broadcast from San Francisco: "Whatever the modifying views of our associates in war may be, Americans should have formulated the kind of peace that THEY want. They must make up their minds BEFORE the war ends; otherwise others will make the peace, and not us." (New York Times, July 13, 1942) And in his recent book, on "The Problems of Lasting Peace", it is written: "The purpose of this war, the most terrible of three centuries, is to make a lasting Peace. We must first win the war. But we will not win lasting peace unless we prepare for it. And we can prepare only by full and free public discussion, by the cold surgery of analysis." In May it was revealed that thirty-five government agencies were then engaged in postwar planning. (Stated by T. E. D., May 9, 1942) International discussions, and likewise public forums, are being held on postwar problems. Therefore the question is a timely and urgent one, "Peace — Can It Last?" The answer depends upon how the peace problems are solved. The greatest religious head in "Christendom" claims it his right to hold the world domination, and he is moving to exercise his power and influence in the peace conference, even offering the Vatican in which to hold it. By reason of his concordat with the Fascist dictator of Rome in 1929 he is now a temporal ruler as well as a religious one. The Hierarchy and the religious population which he rules as god declare that the Peace Treaty of 1919 failed because the pope was not in on it. He now appears in a peace role, pluming himself for a suitable place or voice in the coming Peace Conference. If he gains it, and if the Treaty of Vienna of 1815 is followed as to primacy of diplomatic representatives, then he or his official representative should preside as the "dean" of all the conferees. Says one of his American archbishops: "The only enduring peace that will restore the world to sanity and to a sense of the dignity of human personality is the peace of Pope Pius XII." And a monsignor in a radiocast from Washington, D.C., says: "He [that is, Pacelli] whose name is rooted in peace will be the one who will restore peace to the world; for when peace does come it will come, not in the way the world expects or plans it, but in an utterly unsuspected way." — Mgr. F. J. S., February 8, 1942.
• A United Press dispatch of July 15, from Vichy, France, was therefore of peculiar interest to Americans who believe only in peace by victory, and no negotiated peace with a gangster, and which dispatch reads: "Diplomatic circles said tonight that the Vatican was preparing a peace encyclical, to be published in mid-August, defining Pope Pius XII's ideas of a basis for a negotiated peace and postwar world planning." "An earlier United Press dispatch from Vichy, which apparently had some bearing on this report, was completely censored out except for the statement that 'there was a noticeable rapprochement of the Vatican and non-Catholic powers' recently." (New York Times, July 16,1942) Whom these "non-Catholic powers" include can be surmised, when this fact is remembered, that despite the break between Italy and the United States the secretary of the personal envoy of the president is meantime acting as the representative of this country to the Vatican.
• The political statesmen of the world are also looking ahead to the peace, anxiously. Some fear the peace worse than they do the war, fearing for a great postwar slump, unemployment, dislocation of industry, communications' breakdown, international debt tangle, anarchy and revolutions in various places, famine and pestilence, and other evils. They hope that the mistakes and blunders of 1919 and following years will not be repeated. A great struggle is foreseen to "lift the living standards from one end of this planet to the other". The Nazi dictator has led his hordes on in world aggression Math the promise of, to quote him, "a social state which must and shall be a model of perfection in every sphere of life"; and the pope has published to the world a five-point program for world peace. Those of a democratic mind hope for a United States of the world, a "family of nations", a "world association" based on the United Nations, including a "world legion". Says one spokesman: "An international constitution and government will be a postwar necessity." Others argue for a "World Bill of Rights". Others say the evidence shows that the hopes of the world are for the League of Nations again; and one college official says that the World Court for international arbitration must be made the key in a revived League. One of the president's own cabinet members says: 'A world organization, with the United Nations as its base, will determine the peace, and the postwar world will be policed by the allied powers.'  Those rulers and representatives of the people charged with the task of arranging the postwar conditions have a tremendous responsibility, not only before the people, but also before the great Universal Ruler, Jehovah God.

One thing to notice, too, is that this is the part of the speech about the victor in the war. Yet, the speech itself doesn't really  come close to mentioning who will be the victor of the war. It even apparently chides the United States for thinking that a peace can only come if the Allied Powers are the victor. And he chides the harlot, Babylon the Great, whose capital is in Vatican City for being ready to ride on the back of whomever shows himself as victor. But it might not have been noticed that Knorr was merely reading various quotes about how various leaders planned to be involved in a post-war peace. Rightly, Knorr never took sides in this -- even in another spot when he mentioned the king of the north and king of the south, he didn't predict which side would come out on top.

More importantly, when Knorr uses the expression "based on the United Nations" he is referring to an existing entity, not one that only appears first in planning stages in 1944 and then shows up for real in 1945. That's why he can quote a cabinet member in the next sentence who already refers to the United Nations as an existing entity when he says: "A world organization, with the United Nations as its base, will determine the peace, and the postwar world will be policed by the allied powers." Knorr did not predict that the allies would win; allied powers predicted (of course) that the allied powers would win. I think it's fair to say that Knorr probably thought the allied powers would win. But a "United Nations" of some kind would be the only hope of a more lasting peace no matter who won.

The United Nations was actually named by F.D.Roosevelt at the Arcadia Conference and adopted on January 1, 1942. It was already in the news, and it was obvious that the writer of this speech was well aware of these various proposals in the news. (The writer was not Knorr, apparently, as evidenced by the way Knorr reads and misreads several items which sometimes indicates a lack of understanding as to the intended meaning.) But Knorr does not commit to any particular one of these names or organizations as the particular one that would end up reviving an organization like the League of Nations after the war.

[Evacuated]

I only saw Bro. Knorr on the platform, I never met him personally. His speaking style was a little dry I found, and the talks. whilst containing interesting material seemed....quite long?

Anyway, he made quite an impression on Gileadites I knew (Bro Knorr said this and that). Interestingly, one thing he was reported as saying (by more than one I knew) was that the blood transfusion issue wuld be resolved before the system ends. Back then (early 70s), it was probably the most common, secular bone of contention I met in the field ministry. In fact, even in the early 80s, when my first child arrived, my wife was turned away from the maternity unit of a major  hospital simply because she was one of Jehovah's Witnesses and that without repercussion or sympathy. When another child arrived in the late 90's, the same hospital was providing 5 star customer care for Jehovah's Witnesses in non-blood medical management, with even other patients requesting similar treatment for secular reasons. And as for the ministry, now the blood issue hardly gets a mention. And with the Padua conference referenced elsewhere on the forum, who knows what the future holds in this area.

Do I think Bro.Knorr was serving as a Biblically styled prophet in this? Hardly! Do I think he was serving similarly in the remarks made in connection with the emergence of the United Nations? Never given it a thought, despite the rhetoric. Do I think the Bible prophecy of Revelation 17:8 applying to the re-emergence of a world club of nations from an abyss of World War 2 inactivity was fulfilled in the set up of the UN? Yes I do!

On 5/24/2018 at 7:06 PM, JW Insider said:

A close look at the original transcript of Knorr's talk actually solves the mystery of why he used the term United Nations in his speech. It's because he gave the speech AFTER official work on the United Nations had already begun.

Not so close a look required really. Bro.Knorr's talk on 20 Sep 1942 appears to have correctly acknowledged the non-WTBS origin of Roosevelt's coined term from the earlier 1 January 1942 Declaration of United Nations. (https://www.unmultimedia.org/searchers/yearbook/page.jsp?volume=1946-47&page=36)

Bro. Knorr's talk referenced that: "One of the president's own cabinet members says: 'A world organization, with the United Nations as its base, will determine the peace, and the postwar world will be policed by the allied powers'." (P12 Peace - Can It Last? 1942 WTBS).

What is a bit more interesting is the action awareness of the prophetic indicators of Revelation 17 drove. It is always encouraging to see how the faith of others drives action that can then be blessed by Jehovah. Hebrews chapter 11 certainly sets a strong theme in this regard.

But of far more significance than "someone getting something right" is what motivates God fearing ones to act in harmony with the truths they have become aware of. And the results, which far exceed anything that could be expected through the efforts of puny, imperfect men, bring glory and praise to the one who motivates and empowers faithful ones. The modern day fulfillment of Acts 1:8 "..you will receive power when the holy spirit comes upon you, and you will be witnesses of me..." is thrilling indeed for those who are a part of it and who give Jehovah and His son Jesus Christ the credit for their success.

And do you know what? These demonstrations of faith, the god-glorifying results of the preaching work, and the credit for it all going to Jehovah still takes place even when "someone gets something wrong!"

 

(PS to @JWInsider, I wrote this up before your more recent posting on the topic. Just didn't get time to post it. I hadn't refreshed the screens to see yours with some similar quotes.)

[JW Insider]

5 hours ago, Gone Away said:

But of far more significance than "someone getting something right" is what motivates God fearing ones to act in harmony with the truths they have become aware of.

Loved this. Spot on. It's the very thesis of what I am trying to say with this entire post.

Also, of course, Knorr said nothing really wrong in this talk. It was heavier on politics than we are now. And it still identified Babylon the Great with the religion of the Pope and the Vatican. Otherwise, I found the talk very interesting and informative, and perfectly situated to the conditions and interests of the time. I also believe that the idea of a UN-like organization is a pretty good solution to figuring out what a modern-day interpretation of Revelation 17 would look like. Not necessarily definitive, of course, since "new light" can come out at any time. But it's a very reasonable interpretation that has withstood the test of time for several decades.

[Space Merchant]

A tad bit off topic, but somewhat related to League of Nations / United Nations

One thing for certain that may slip by or not cross the minds of some people is that the League of Nations/United Nations had very odd component added to them. Not sure if any of you are familiar with mystic-loving Luciferian Arcanist that had a role in the LoN/UN, one of them in particular that is said to be the Spiritual Mother of the UN, to which that main head honcho, the UN has taken legacy of this woman's work, mind you, so and so is not a fan of Christians or religious people at the time, and it is said people like her usually infiltrate the churches and somehow influence or mess them up from the inside, like a virus entering the body of a human being, if you will.

Today, the unity of religious faiths is far easier for UN so that they can control it - hence the actions of the Pope, for any religious group that is willing to side with the UN on decisions are the ones to watch out for.

[JW Insider]

17 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Luciferian Arcanist . . . people like her . . .

No, never heard of her. I'd like to hear more, although I give full disclosure below about my leanings in most of these matters:

I have recently seen that a lot of fundamentalist religious groups and others, too, have had pseudo-religious conspiracy theories surrounding the League of Nations, and more recently, of course, concerning the United Nations (or both). I have become a serious doubter of most of these ideas, mostly due to the nature of conspiracy theories. There are dozens of competing theories, and none of them can ever be proven wrong, which is pretty much the nature and definition of religious conspiracy theories.

[Space Merchant]

7 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

Symbolism and conspiracy. The Luciferian connection would be no different than the Freemason, or the Illuminati connection in the U.N.

The same connection that ex-witnesses distinguish when fools attempt to sway the argument, the Watchtower Founder was a “freemason” just because he mentioned the sect as a religion rather than a secret society.

Where did the Freemasonry derive from, if not the Knights Templar? Who, recruited those people if not the Vatican? However, black magic can be seen how far in man’s history.

How about Theosophy? That derives from Gnosticism and Neoplatonism. The Greek Theos “god” and Sophia “wisdom”, or divine wisdom, that is seen as an influence in the halls of the united nation.

They say some UN directors like Robert Muller, and Maurice Strong were Luciferian’s. But the Vatican as an active NGO with a true voice has had a hand on both the League of Nations and the United Nations. Therefore, Satan’s conquest will have many elements, not just one.

 

As bizarre it may sound, it is indeed true, of whom I speak of indeed has had a role in the UN/LoN until her death and her legacy continues. The group in question that bares her legacy is Lucis Trust, a nonprofit service organization incorporated in the United States in 1922 and it runs a blog, "World Goodwill at the UN", which focuses on defining new Sustainable Development Goals for humanity, but it is evident of how such a person left an imprint in what the UN is today, for this woman's inspiration of origin comes from Helena Blavatsky of Theosophical Society, perhaps above and beyond Freemasonary. Other then that the influence of such people by means of their legacy is quite the dangerous one, even to JWs, for such a group tends to do a lot more harm to Christians who are unaware than the very opponents of said faith.

Yes, JW opponents tend to equal JWs to Freemasonry, but clearly JWs and or the Watchtower is anything but, in fact, Freemasons have a hatred for Jehovah's Witnesses and will hop on the bandwagon should any JW do something so they can express the same action as that of the JW opponents. The reality is, of what was mention previous JW opponents will easily be swayed to side with such people, this was the case with one JW opponent who claimed he believes in healing people by touching them, and this individual has dwell in Freemasonry and Mysticism while adding Christianity into the mix and he has been trying to convert people to his views.

I do not see Robert Muller or Maurice anything of the like, however, these people are pawns to the deep state, for everyone in government and politics are pawns, even their own enemies such as Syria and Russia, Iran, pawns and more pawns to something that is unseen and unknown to most of the world, only a selective few who can see by means of connecting the dots will point out this very truth.

As for the Vatican, out of all sponsored NGOs, there is one. I wouldn't say the Vatican is the head honcho of this specific NGO that is literal on a religious conquest for peace, but at the same time it would seem as it is, for the Pope, Francis, is the the face, the front, of this UN sponsored NGO. Not a lot of people realize that Elijah Interfaith exist, and that its founder is Israel. As we speak everything pertaining to unity and religion, including religious leaders, are all part of Elijah Interfaith and it is growing, the UN put the Pope in quite the unique position, then you have the other branches such as Kairos and several others.

[Space Merchant]

8 hours ago, JW Insider said:

No, never heard of her. I'd like to hear more, although I give full disclosure below about my leanings in most of these matters:

I have recently seen that a lot of fundamentalist religious groups and others, too, have had pseudo-religious conspiracy theories surrounding the League of Nations, and more recently, of course, concerning the United Nations (or both). I have become a serious doubter of most of these ideas, mostly due to the nature of conspiracy theories. There are dozens of competing theories, and none of them can ever be proven wrong, which is pretty much the nature and definition of religious conspiracy theories.

This woman goes by the name Alice A. Bailey.

Some Information: Alice and Foster Bailey founded the Lucis Trust in 1922. Its activities include the Arcane School, World Goodwill, Triangles, a quarterly magazine called The Beacon, and a publishing company primarily intended to publish Bailey's many books. The Arcane School gives instruction and guidance in meditation, via correspondence, based on the ideas in Bailey's books. World Goodwill is intended to promote better human relations through goodwill which they define as "love in action". That "action" included support of the United Nations. The "Triangles" are groups of three people who agree to link up in thought each day and to meditate on right human relations, visualising light and love pouring into human minds and hearts, followed by the use of the Great Invocation. It is not necessary for each person to link in thought at the same time each day and need only take a few moments of time. Alice and Foster Bailey founded, "Lucifer Publishing Company". ("'Lucifer' and 'Lucis' come from the same word root, lucis being the Latin genitive case meaning of light."[3] After the first two or three years, the name was changed to "Lucis Publishing Co." (The Theosophical Society also used the name "Lucifer" for its early magazine.) In 1923, with the help of Foster Bailey, Alice Bailey founded the Arcane School, which is part of Lucis Trust. This school provides educational correspondence, meditation instruction, and guided study based on her writings. Bailey continued to work up to the time of her death in 1949.

Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_Bailey

https://www.lucistrust.org/books/about_alice_a_bailey

Lucis Trust to this day still exist and is well knitted with the United Nations and those who are sponsored: https://www.lucistrust.org

 

[Space Merchant]

@AllenSmith One thing for certain, the United Nations do have their cards on the table, and clearly has a few under their sleeve, number 21 tends to be the lucky number too. For me I have 3 sources I adhere to in regards to that kind of stuff an are quite credible, use to be 4 until the man stuck it to him and so and so has been recovering, but has o be censored otherwise he'd get the boot again. Among them, one of which is a good Christian man, however he seems to have his fingers in the water, he tends to be a bit political but clearly against the government and corruption, I myself am not.