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[TrueTomHarley]

3 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

If He chose 5 years to make your Org clean, then another 5 years until Judgement Day. Plenty of time. 

Piece of cake for him

3 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

See my new topic about the  'original' IBSA. 

Yes! It will be them—the “true anointed.” They are preparing so well for their new assignment that when people hear footsteps coming up the drive, they say: “Here come those International Bible Students again!

3 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

If JW congregants were shown True new light by the True Anointed, that could easily be 8.5 million people that would change to a true way of worshipping God. 

Yes! They would break out in song like the munchkins of Oz: “Ding dong the witch is dead!”

3 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Tom Harley ridicules me about my idea concerning the True Anointed. 

Why would you say that?

37 minutes ago, Witness said:

Now Tom, I thought you were a facebook fan, having your own page.  Should I ask why you hang out there?

Because I just present myself as an ordinary person, not as One of the true anointed throwing a lifeline to lost souls. Much of what I write there has nothing to do with religion. Same goes for my blog, which is not a part of Facebook.

3 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

JW congregants know nothing of the CSA,

I think they do. Granted, they do not accept your role as the Great Explainer.

3 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

or of the misuse of scriptures by your GB

Ditto. I think they do. Granted, they do not accept your role as the Great Explainer. They don’t count it as “misuse.” They are not quite so....so....some would say immature....as you.

[Witness]

6 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

But what then do you see as the next move forward ? 

Jesus said that we would know the anointed who are listening to Christ, by the "fruits"/teachings they produce. Matt 7:20; Mal 3:18  The signs of the end clarifies that there would be false messiah's, false prophets to mislead the "elect". Matt 24:24   Revelation speaks of this composite false prophet that directs a "Beast" organization. Rev 13:1,2  Those who stand up to the false prophet are "killed".  Their words reveal the identity of the "man of lawless"/Beast during the last days, that treads down the Temple/anointed.  2 Thess 2:1-4; Rev 11:1-3,7; 13:11,15   These under the "woman" covenant, become a "carcass" (Rev 11: 7-10; 12:6) that any who yearn to know truth, will be directed to, by Holy Spirit.  Those who search out truth, are the "eagles" (Luke 12:37) that are fed the "marriage feast" in the last days - the opening of Revelation's scrolls.  All leaving the "city" are invited.  Matt 22:1-14

Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”

22 Then He said to the disciples, “The days will come when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. 23 And they will say to you, ‘Look here!’ or ‘Look there!’ Do not go after them or follow them. 24 For as the lightning that flashes out of one part under heaven shines to the other part under heaven, so also the Son of Man will be in His day. 25 But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. 26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: 27 They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; 29 but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.

31 “In that day, he who is on the housetop, and his goods are in the house, let him not come down to take them away. And likewise the one who is in the field, let him not turn back. 32 Remember Lot’s wife. 33 Whoever seeks to save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. 

34 I tell you, in that night there will be two men in one bed: the one will be taken and the other will be left. 35 Two women will be grinding together: the one will be taken and the other left. 36 Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left.”

37 And they answered and said to Him, “Where, Lord?”

So He said to them, “Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”

There is no need for an earthly organization, since Jesus'  Body of living stones , IS God's "organization". 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 12; Eph 2:20-22; 4:7-13

All the spiritual signs that we have, point to the "tribulation" that you presently are experiencing now; discerning truth from lies, spoken by the anointed ones.  Verse 33:  We "lose" the life we know when leaving the WT and its lies; if we turn to Christ, we preserve our eternal life to come.  

"Do you suppose that I came to give peace on earth? I tell you, not at all, but rather division. 52 For from now on five in one house will be divided: three against two, and two against three. 53 Father will be divided against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.”  Luke 12:51-53

Pearl Doxsey - "YHVH's Genuine Mountain"

 

 

 

[Witness]

5 hours ago, Arauna said:

Hebr 11:1   Faith is based on evidence.  Blind faith is not faith. 

That’s not what Hebrews is saying:

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. ² For by it the elders obtained a good testimony.

³ By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.

By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. ⁹ By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise; ¹⁰ for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.  Heb 11:8-10

These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.  Heb 11:13

 

About the Christ:

“Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy”  1 Pet 1:8

Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."  John 20:29

 

About the signs of the coming Kingdom:

"Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say,‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”  Luke 17:20-21

"For we walk by faith, not by sight."  2 Cor 5:7

 

[Arauna]

1 hour ago, Witness said:

evidence of things not seen. ² F

I have often seen you quote scriptures to suit yourself and  with a very warped or emotional perspective.

One can have "evidence" - even if things are not seen.  The simplest example is wind. One cannot see it but one sees the effect..... therefore there is wind.

How do they know there was a big bang...... they measure things which we cannot see with the eye.

How do we know God exists? Because we can see intelligent design..... the unseen wisdom in the design.....

I can go on and on.  For someone who claims to be anointed your insight  goes as far as quoting tons of scriptures without understanding what they really mean.

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

2 hours ago, Witness said:

evidence of things not seen. ² F

I have often seen you quote scriptures to suit yourself and  with a very warped or emotional perspective.

Faith is the assured expectation of what is hoped for,+ the evident demonstration* of realities that are not seen. - Heb 11:1

 

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

One can have "evidence" - even if things are not seen.  The simplest example is wind. One cannot see it but one sees the effect..... therefore there is wind.

How do they know there was a big bang...... they measure things which we cannot see with the eye.

How do we know God exists? Because we can see intelligent design..... the unseen wisdom in the design.....

wind ... big bang that can be measured ....intelligent design

These things are not, shouldn't be your FAITH in things you expecting and hoped for. Basically, faith is your inner feeling how something is, was, will be. And YOU ARE evident demonstration of realities that are not seen. YOU by your faith, hopes with private and public manifestations making them as are real.

When you counting: wind, measurement instruments and design, people not need your faith as evident demonstration, because they can do it without you. 

When you talking about God, Miracles and future Kingdom, these are things that need, required  to be VISIBLE in FAITH (we can call this part of Faith with another name - Imagination), your's and in faith of people you preaching. Heb 11 1 speaking about future, well this sort of faith is looking in the future aspects. Part of faith about past that has some material evidences of thing that took place, but also about many things you can't prove with historical tools. In that case you also need faith (imagination) about something that was not visible any more.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

15 hours ago, Arauna said:

Jesus himself said that no flesh would be saved unless God stepped in. While it is not a teaching of ours to 'fear'  destruction of the earth there is a prophecy which shows we are indeed  'ruining' the earth. Rev 11:18.

I follow news regarding this issue and the true state if affairs regarding the biosphere is hidden from the public, while scientists are playing along with US government policy to hide the true state if affairs. 

Ice on Himalayas is melting as is a threat to the country of Bhutan, Maldives going down with rising waters.  Forests are dryer in certain areas, leaves and roots so dry that new saplings are dying. Fires in Sweden, Russia etc. The biggest secret is climate engineering..... on and on.... bla bla.... too much information available but people do not go there.

Hebr 11:1   Faith is based on evidence.  Blind faith is not faith. 

 

I will agree that humans are ruining the Earth. But it seems to me that you are still looking for signs. We know that humans cannot destroy this Earth or the human race. We know God's intention from the beginning was to have perfect humans living on a perfect Earth, and God's intentions haven't changed. I used to take an interest in earthwide news articles but many are so depressing and upsetting and some would even make me angry. The suffering and cruelty earthwide is not something I want constant reminders of.  I know, 100% am certain of, that God will put it all right when He is ready. And prior to that people will continue to suffer, but the human race and the earth will remain.  

[Witness]

10 hours ago, Arauna said:

I have often seen you quote scriptures to suit yourself and  with a very warped or emotional perspective.

One can have "evidence" - even if things are not seen.  The simplest example is wind. One cannot see it but one sees the effect..... therefore there is wind.

How do they know there was a big bang...... they measure things which we cannot see with the eye.

How do we know God exists? Because we can see intelligent design..... the unseen wisdom in the design.....

I can go on and on.  For someone who claims to be anointed your insight  goes as far as quoting tons of scriptures without understanding what they really mean.

Faith is based on a promise to come.  From our faith in the evident demonstration God’s Word supplies us, we develop within ourselves, faith in the promise; not by what we see happening in the world, which is Satan’s counterfeit “evidence”.  If we intently observe the literal “ruining of the earth” as a sign that the Kingdom is to arrive, we have put our hope in Satan’s ability not only to ruin the earth but bring forth the Kingdom.    When I read your comment, it appeared to me that you were explaining people’s selective blindness to the destruction already happening in the world…that YOU see.  Because those certain people do not use that as evidence of the Kingdom arriving, you seem to apply their faith is not genuine.   Your message was contradictory; while explaining literal destruction as the basis of one’s faith in the coming Kingdom,  in your next comment, you then try to explain the unseen powers that have negatively affected the earth, as evidence to put one’s faith in.       

Yes, Satan is making an all-out effort to literally ruin the earth, but Revelation speaks of Satan’s ability to ruin the “earth” through the outpouring of deception, of lies.  His Beast from the Sea doesn’t emerge from the literal sea. Rev 13:1 The “sea” represents wickedness (Isa 57:20; Jude 1:13,12)  The Beast “makes war” with the “earth” – God’s people/saints/”mankind” under the “woman” covenant  by using blasphemy – demonic expressions. Gal 4:26;  Rev 13:5-7; 16:13,14

“So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth.” Rev 12:15,16

(For any interested…Pearl Doxsey – “Earth Swallows Satan’s River”)

None of the above is literally happening on the literal earth.  Its significance is spiritual and occurring in the organization, where God’s anointed “inhabited earth”/owned “land” (John 14:23; 1 Cor 3:9; Eph 2:21,22; 2 Cor 6:16) is swallowing Satan’s deceitful, poisoned waters, through the teachings of a fallen anointed “star”.  Rev 8: 10,11; Amos 6:1,12; Heb 12:14-17 (Matt 5:13; 2 Pet 3:7; 1 Pet 4:17

 

This composite leadership has JWs believing in Satan’s earthly manifestations as evidence of the Kingdom’s arrival, which is a lie.   For everyone under the Harlot’s rule, it would be wise to heed Rev 18:4-8

“They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.”  Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.”  Luke 17:27,30

Satan’s flood, spoken by those who deliver it, brings with it, destruction.   God enacts the judgment against its deliverers, because of its evil intent, to kill off the "remaining ones of the woman's seed".  Dan 7:7,8,21,23,25; Rev 12:17,15; Dan 11:10

 And the twenty-four elders who are seated on their thrones before God fell down on their faces and worshiped God, ¹⁷ saying,

“We give thanks to you, Lord God All-Powerful,
    the one who is and the one who was,
because you have taken your great power
    and have begun to reign.
¹⁸ And the nations were angry,
    and your wrath has come,
    and the time for the dead to be judged,
and to give their reward to your slaves the prophets
    and to the saints and to the ones who fear your name,
    the small and the great,
and to destroy those who destroy the earth.”  Rev 11:16-18

 

 

 

 

http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2016/06/symbolic-earth.html

 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

18 minutes ago, Witness said:

If we intently observe the literal “ruining of the earth” as a sign that the Kingdom is to arrive, we have put our hope in Satan’s ability not only to ruin the earth but bring forth the Kingdom.    When I read your comment, it appeared to me that you were explaining people’s selective blindness to the destruction already happening in the world…that YOU see.  Because those certain people do not use that as evidence of the Kingdom arriving, you seem to apply their faith is not genuine.   Your message was contradictory; while explaining literal destruction as the basis of one’s faith in the coming Kingdom,  in your next comment, you then try to explain the unseen powers that have negatively affected the earth, as evidence to put one’s faith in. 

Very, very good, like it very much!

[Arauna]

No I just did a normal risk assessment of the threats to the earth and its population and realized that the bible is absolutely spot-on in its prophecies.

Jehovah will definitely step in before we ruin it completely - so to look at certain milestones we have reached is practical.  

1 hour ago, Witness said:

Faith is based on a promise to come. 

Based on evidence.......  For example: Isaac  had faith that jehovah could resurrect him if he allowed his father to sacrifice him. His father had faith based on evidence .  Did he just blindly believe?  Definitely NOT.  He had "evidence" . He knew that his mother was beyond the age to bear children and jehovah revived her womb to produce his life. Jehovah could give him life again. True, Abraham knew that the promise would come through isaac and he had seen evidence of jehovah in his life before. 

 

[Witness]

5 minutes ago, Arauna said:

Based on evidence.......  For example: Isaac  had faith that jehovah could resurrect him if he allowed his father to sacrifice him. His father had faith based on evidence .  Did he just blindly believe?  Definitely NOT.  He had "evidence" .

Yes, which ties in with the point I was trying to make.

2 hours ago, Witness said:

From our faith in the evident demonstration God’s Word supplies us, we develop within ourselves, faith in the promise; not by what we see happening in the world, which is Satan’s counterfeit “evidence”.

 

[Arauna]

8 hours ago, Witness said:

evident demonstration God’s Word supplies us, we develop within ourselves, faith in the promise; not by what we see happening in the world,

I agree with first part of the statement. What we see happening in the world is an added bonus because it confirms what we understand from the scriptures such as:  " lift up your heads when you see these things"......

When we see what Jehovah predicted happening in real time we have additional reason to rejoice apart from having the regular gratitude and joy for " knowing" him.

[Srecko Sostar]

10 hours ago, Arauna said:

Based on evidence.......

WT literature say in one article: 

The faith in God the Creator that the Bible calls for, and for which it also furnishes the basis, is a faith based on clear evidence and sound reasoning..........As the Bible uses the term “faith,” it might be said to relate to two kinds of things: First, to the certainty of things hoped for, things not seen because of their being in the future. And, secondly, to faith in the existence of spirit beings, who are not visible to the human sight because of their not having material bodies; in other words, faith in God and in his promises. ....Faith that God exists can be firmly established by contemplating the power and wisdom manifest in visible creation, including its order and harmony. ........TRUE FAITH IN GOD REQUIRES A DIVINE REVELATION.........However, let us bear in mind that mere belief that God exists is not enough. That is not the same as having a true and living faith in God himself......True faith in God involves not merely the belief that he exists but also trust and confidence in God as a person......Faith involves not only the mind but also the heart, yes, the whole man.....And let it be noted that even as faith in God means having faith in his Word, the Bible, so faith in the Bible means having faith in Jesus Christ as the Savior of humankind and the King of God’s kingdom. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1977280

clear evidence and sound reasoning .... Abraham and Sarah didn't have clear evidence how they will have son in old age. They had Promise. And they, more or less (when Sara laughed, that was sort of sound reasoning on issue) hoped that maybe this will be or how good it will be if somehow would be. But to secure offspring, Sara gave Agara to his husband, because she believed how there is more chance that old Abraham come to be father with young woman. Yes, they showed "faith" or whatever that is, without clear evidence about possible miracle, because such miracle they not saw happened before to someone else. One sort of clear evidence and sound reasoning would be exactly this: how same thing already happened to someone else, so we can "believe" it can happen to us also. 

Isaac and his obeying to father i don't see as he had a faith about  own resurrection. Did he already had some clear evidence how God made resurrection in similar situation? We today have no clear evidence based on reading in Bible writings to show us what Isaac knew about resurrection issue and what he thinking about. We just give our assuming. Isaac has had less, because he could only saw dying and death of people and no resurrection around. 

We today have faith (about Abraham, Sara and Isaac), not based on some  particular clear evidence and sound reasoning. We can show own conviction how Bible writings ARE clear evidence for our faith despite fact how normal or sound reasoning clearly say: death people are still death, very old woman can't give birth to a child.  

With this sort of conclusions (by making own convictions) you creating trust and confidence in Bible, God, JW Organization etc.