1914

[Arauna]

24 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among youz and be submissive,a for they are keeping watch over you* as those who will render an account,b so that they may do this with joy and not with sighing, for this would be damaging to you.

Quote "When we stand in front of the judgment seat of God, there isn’t going to be an elder holding our hand, or telling us how to think... "          No not then but there are NOW. 

The GB say they are the F&DS and have said in W/t that they are tthat they are the ONE chathat they are the ONE he ONE chathat the ONE he ONE chathat they are the ONE channel they are the ONE channel that God is using nnel that God is using (although denying it at ARC) and that congregants should trust THEM. The GB give 'authority' through the ranks, down to the Elders. Then the scripture at Hebrews mentioned above is used to enforce the Elders 'authority'. 

So, if a person is an obedient JW, they cannot choose to be responsible for their own spirituality if it goes against serving the GB and the JW Org.  You and others cannot get this through your heads. 

If a congregant has thoughts that the GB and JW Org are wrong, and if they prove to themselves from scripture, they have to make a choice. Stay in the ORG, in which case then they are serving the GB / Org, or, leave.  

I think you suggested that a person should do their own research but keep quiet about it. 

Quote " If we discern it’s wrong direction then we act on our own behalf, and not tell others what to do, because everyone else has a Bible too."

Now this is where @Arauna will start to say that i 'misuse' scripture. BUT you @Anna are saying use the Bible myself. And thereby lies a contradiction. I can pray for spiritual help and read my bible and come to a decision as to what a scripture means to me. BUT @Arauna will tell me I am misusing the scriptures. Hence, I've said on here so many times before that ONLY the true Anointed will  know truth from the scriptures. Why ? Obviously because we can all have our own opinions as to what each scripture OObviously because we can all have our own opinions as to what each scripture Obviously bviously because we can all have our own opinions as to what each scripture means. means. 

We can take for example @JW Insider 's explanation about the NON 'sign oNON 'sign of the times'.  f the times'.  Which @Arauna seems to totally disagree with. 

Quote " We already talked about why there is no need for the anointed to form some kind of s

Be obedient to those taking the lead amongst you: what do YOU believe this scripture means.

"Obviously because we can all have our own opinions as to what each scripture "  - your quote.

This kind of philosophy/thinking I found prevalent in the west in first world countries...... at work.....everywhere .  Meaning that there can be no unity because all do and think as they please but only cooperate and keep quiet because they want their pay .  This way of  thinking has also infiltrated the Christian congregation...... each one wants their independent opinion - not realizing that this causes division. 

I prefer to try to understand why the GB opinion differs from mine.  

You think I am a GB puppet - I am not.  However, I have learnt to think about what the GB say and why they say it..... so I can cooperate to the best of my abilities.  The sin Adam did was egotistical - he wanted to be independent from jehovah.  This tendency is still the greatest deceiver of those who like to deceive themselves.   Their freedom is not true freedom because they are a slave to themselves. 

40 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

think you've been listening to / reading toooooo much from @Arauna .

Anna will not listen to me - she knows better. She happens to agree with me because it is logical.  Something you do not see. You listen to Witness who will lead you down the garden path because you like your own opinion and independence more than the truth.  You are a slave to your own desires/ideas.

45 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

The Anointed are not the same as the Earthly Class. The sooner people get this through their heads the better for everyone. The Anointed are the BODY OF CHRIST. Do you not understand that God has a special use for them even now. Otherwise God could anoint a person when they were on their deathbed. That Body of Christ has a right to communicate with each

Not to the point where they all want special treatment. The special use is being a slave of God...... and the commission is to preach and teach.  I know another anointed lady who has been a pioneer most of her life,  she must now be 87 and still going strong. Smart but humble, raising 5 faithful children with an unfaithful husband who later divorced her.  She gave me wonderful advice.  Apparently she still cooks for pioneers.....  

[Arauna]

2 hours ago, César Chávez said:

OCT of 539 BC, toward the end of the year. Therefore, everything else would have taken place in 538/537 BC just like scholars now estimate.

Cyrus appointed Darius the Mede as Satrap (hence the 2 horned beast in Daniel - media and persia).  Darius the Mede ruled but Cyrus came back to Babylon in 538 BCE to be crowned King of Kings.

As I studied this history many moons ago - I did not just read about dates but tried to understand the culture-  I recall that BAbylon became the most important ancient religious centre.  There is good reason why jehovah calls the world empire of false religion "Babylon the Great" because it was from here that most false traditions spread.  What is very significant is the mix of religion and the highest head of government (religion and politics).

Even when Syria became a dominating world  power in the region and there was strife between these countries- their cultures were intertwined. Several kings still travelled to Babylon to be crowned as king of kings - it was the tradition with great significance. It was a sign of great power and blessing of the gods..... or humiliation.

The temple complex of Esigilia was rebuilt by Nebuchadnezzar and shrines erected everywhere.  He did his research like modern rulers do and restored the old traditions in their full glory. No wonder he was so proud of himself!  

2 hours ago, César Chávez said:

also the time of turmoil for Cyrus

Political turmoil or domestic turmoil? 

3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

The festival of Akitu was not just celebrated in 538 BCE, but EACH and EVERY year for centuries prior and

Yes it was celebrated every year BUT it was NOT celebrated for quite some time.  Nabonides did not attend any of the festivals as king- especially the festival of Akito which was seen as a grave sin  This was the reason he was hated by his people.  They were sure their gods were going to punish them all for his neglect.  He left Beltshazzar in charge while he went off to Arabia (city of Tema) to build a temple to the Moongod. His mother had been a priestess of the moongod.  This was seen as treason.  The festival was re-installed with great pomp. 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

37 minutes ago, Arauna said:

Be obedient to those taking the lead amongst you: what do YOU believe this scripture means.

"Obviously because we can all have our own opinions as to what each scripture "  - your quote.

This kind of philosophy/thinking I found prevalent in the west in first world countries...... at work.....everywhere .  Meaning that there can be no unity because all do and think as they please but only cooperate and keep quiet because they want their pay .  This way of  thinking has also infiltrated the Christian congregation...... each one wants their independent opinion - not realizing that this causes division. 

I prefer to try to understand why the GB opinion differs from mine.  

You think I am a GB puppet - I am not.  However, I have learnt to think about what the GB say and why they say it..... so I can cooperate to the best of my abilities.  The sin Adam did was egotistical - he wanted to be independent from jehovah.  This tendency is still the greatest deceiver of those who like to deceive themselves.   Their freedom is not true freedom because they are a slave to themselves. 

Anna will not listen to me - she knows better. She happens to agree with me because it is logical.  Something you do not see. You listen to Witness who will lead you down the garden path because you like your own opinion and independence more than the truth.  You are a slave to your own desires/ideas.

Not to the point where they all want special treatment. The special use is being a slave of God...... and the commission is to preach and teach.  I know another anointed lady who has been a pioneer most of her life,  she must now be 87 and still going strong. Smart but humble, raising 5 faithful children with an unfaithful husband who later divorced her.  She gave me wonderful advice.  Apparently she still cooks for pioneers.....  

@Arauna I didn't even bother reading your complete comment because all you do is nit pick, just as My Harley does. My Harley doesn't have any truthful or any good answers so he mocks by taking tiny pieces of what I write. You have done the same here, to make it look as if I've said something which I obviously didn't say. So be it, if you cannot act honestly, then your comments mean nothing to me. I will only answer this bit. 

Quote : Be obedient to those taking the lead amongst you: what do YOU believe this scripture means. 

That scripture means exactly what it says. BUT that is why that scripture can be so dangerous. 

If those taking the lead should not be taking the lead, if they are standing in the place where others should stand, then 'followers' would be being obedient to the wrong ones. The Pope for instance could quote that scripture, as Archbishop could quote it. And the GB quote it. All being false teachers. Standing in the place where the True Anointed should be stood. 

Now, second quote, which had no connection to the first one. 

 "Obviously because we can all have our own opinions as to what each scripture "  - your quote.

You will note this is only half a sentence, and taken out of context.. And I was stating fact, that we can all read a scripture and all get different meanings from it. This was in answer to @Anna who said I should read my Bible and make up my own mind (or something similar to that). 

If @Arauna wants proper conversation then I suggest she tries being more honest with her quotes from me, not just quoting half a sentence to suit her own agendas. What is it @Arauna OCD. ? 

 

 

[JW Insider]

17 minutes ago, Arauna said:

Yes it was celebrated every year BUT it was NOT celebrated for quite some time.  Nabonides did not attend any of the festivals as king- especially the festival of Akito which was seen as a grave sin  This was the reason he was hated by his people.  They were sure their gods were going to punish them all for his neglect.  He left Beltshazzar in charge while he went off to Arabia (city of Tema) to build a temple to the Moongod. His mother had been a priestess of the moongod.  This was seen as treason.  The festival was re-installed with great pomp.

I've read things like this too. But it should still be pointed out that it is conjecture to indicate that it was at one of these events that Cyrus must have made the declaration. And although the king was an integral part of each New Year's celebration, a co- or vice-regent could represent him or "do the honors" under their own title.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I’m sure of that, too.

Proving my point about Mr Harley. He has nothing better to offer here, so he misquotes. Such a jealous man, because he gets no attention. Probably nobody is buying his books. 

[Arauna]

4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

shows it's more likely they were co-rulers.

To fulfill Daniel's prophecy there were two rulers..... Darius the Mede and the Persian from Shusan.  In 538 BCE Cyrus was crowned King of Kings. 

And if I remember correctly the festival of Akito was 14 days long. He went up into the tower of Babel (the temple on top) and slept with the high priestess. The people loved this festival with its many activities.

39 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

why that scripture can be so dangerous. 

To obey scripture is not dangerous.  That is your personal opinion because you prefer to do and think your own thing.  You are a slave to your own desires. 

36 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

celebration, a co- or vice-regent could represent him or "do the honors" under their own title.

I just googled and this came up. Cyrus then claimed to be the legitimate successor of the ancient Babylonian kings and became popular in Babylon itself, in contrast to Nabonidus. 

For this reason he was there personally..... I remember now:  he was crowned King of four corners if the earth. 

[Arauna]

4 hours ago, Witness said:

support the UN Charter

When I became a US citizen I pledged loyalty for my new country but refused to go to war for this country. I signed a document.   

I will never do anything against this country - so in my actions I support it.  I obey it in everything, until they expect me to break the law of God by going to war or to stop preaching or make acknowledgement of immorality mandatory.

What about Roman's 13: Let every person be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God; the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God.  2 Therefore, whoever opposes the authority has taken a stand against the arrangement of God; those who have taken a stand against it will bring judgment

In order to get a library card - do you not think you are taking it too far by trying to prove how righteous you are?  We have a saying in my language which means " you are splitting hairs" over nothing.

They registered as a NGO to get access to library..... and other services in a normal online procedure. Question: Do you read through ALL the policies when you use an internet account etc....... you may be surprised at what you sign up to.  

4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

and insults if you don't let the diversions work.

I do get a lot of insults regarding my intellect..... and my devotion to mommy watchtower ....... to be expected when people do not have a love for truth or think we are babies who cannot think straight and only drink JW propaganda like mothers milk.

4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Even if 607 had been correct, it would have nothing to do with 1914, from a scriptural perspective.

Please explain this statement.

[Witness]

2 hours ago, Arauna said:

They registered as a NGO to get access to library..... and other services in a normal online procedure.

You have to remember, no one demanded that they become an NGO.  It has nothing to do with "subjection to superior authorities."  It has everything to do with integrity, which the GB/organization have none of.  

What were the other services that required them to become an NGO?  Do you know?  Do you know why they are NGO members in other countries?  I don't.  What need would an organization that believes it is directed by God, have in taking part in the nations of the world?  How do you correlate THIS to Moses' day?  Just think  about it.  

From the book, "What the Watchtower Society Doesn't Want You to Know"

The question was, “Has the criteria for getting a library pass to the United Nations changed?”

Reply:

“The procedure for a library pass is the following:  the interested party needs to fill out an application form and supply a letter of recommendation in support of the research.  If the needed material is not available in the UN depository library (the list of depository libraries is posted at:  http://www.un.org/depts/dhl/deplib/countries/), the application is approved and sent to UN Security.  UN Security checks the application and, if approved is granted, instructs the Pass office to issue a library pass for the applicant. 

The issuance of a library pass is independent of NGO status or any other status.  There has been no change in the library policy.”  

Best Regards

[Name]

Senior Reference Librarian

UN/SA Reference Desk

United Nations Library, New York

They didn't become an NGO simply to acquire a library card.

 

 

4 hours ago, Arauna said:

Not to the point where they all want special treatment. The special use is being a slave of God...... and the commission is to preach and teach. 

The anointed do have a special “use”, to be a working priesthood, but contrary to scripture they are told to wait. 1 Pet 2:5,9; Eph 2:20-22  The elder body has been given special treatment, even special honor, as a priesthood to replace them.  This is truly an abomination.  2 Thess 2:4; Rev 11:1-3

We honor Christian elders when we show respect for their position and follow their direction. We also honor them by commending them for their hard work.  WT 17/3/8

It is incredible, that respect is to be given to a position created by men, but not to a position created by God.  

Although it is a wonderful privilege to have the heavenly calling, anointed Christians do not expect any special honor from others. (Eph. 1:18, 19; read Philippians 2:2, 3.) Jehovah’s spirit bore witness to them personally. No announcement was made to the world. So they are not surprised if some people do not readily believe that they have truly been anointed by holy spirit. In fact, they realize that the Scriptures advise against quickly believing someone who claims to have a special appointment from God. (Rev. 2:2) WT 16/1 p. 22

 Honor is given to the elders but not to God’s “special possession”. 

“Then the king will do as he pleases, and he will exalt himself and will consider himself above any god, and he will speak horrendous things against the God of gods, yet he will succeed until the period of anger is finished, for what is determined will be done."  Dan 11:36

Do elders have a special appointment from God?  Your leaders tell you they do.  They hand pick them.  If the organization belonged to God, He would clearly make known who His priesthood is.  Only they would be leading the flock.  As it is, the anointed are there, invisible, and JWs should question why this is so.   Rev 13:1,2,5-10

Most likely no one told the anointed priests up until the introduction of the organization, that they must WAIT…to offer sacrifices of praise as holy priests and to “teach” the sheep as priests were obligated to do.  The faithful ones followed the direction of their Head, Jesus Christ.   The apostles acted like priests and taught the incoming anointed how to also.   Man’s “organization” changes the whole dynamics of scripture; bending God’s decrees to suit what men have built.   2 Chron 13:9; Ezek 44:6-9

 

 

 

[TrueTomHarley]

4 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Probably nobody is buying his books. 

Nobody is. I need you to get the ball rolling. Have you gone back to celebrating Christmas yet? The books make great stocking stuffers.

Come now, don’t be mean to me. I am trying to help.

You have said that Armageddon might be 10 years or more in the future, and that the ‘true anointed’ (since the present one is no good) might manifest itself in 10 years or less. Thus it is conceivable that they might both happen at the ten year mark on the dot, and the situation of those saved will be like the baseball player sliding into home—the true anointed umpire waving him safe as the devil catcher misses with his tag.

So that this ridiculous situation does not happen, you must do all you can so that the ”true anointed,” when it appears, hits the ground running and doesn’t wait to the last moment to get moving. Some members of this “true anointed,” I gather, are still muzzled within JWorg—they can’t all be outside and have their own Facebook pages. If they were, they could start a Facebook group and go from there, lacking only the Great Eight, who they don’t like anyway.. So some must be current Witnesses who are treated terribly, held incommunicado, not allowed to communicate with one another. 

You can’t help them because the present arrangement is not pure enough for you and you cannot look upon what is bad. However, JTR is not so finicky and has no problem doing that. You can assign him to the role of “true helper” to those future members of the “true anointed.” He can thereby redeem himself in your eyes for seeing, as you do, how wicked everything is in the org but choosing to remain there still—give him the assignment. He can visit these mistreated anointed ones in their cells and even pass notes from one to another in case they want to communicate in strict violation of the rules. That way they will be in better shape when the true liberation comes.

Please, 4Jah, I am only trying to help. I think this suggestion might work.

 

 

[Arauna]

3 hours ago, César Chávez said:

The bolster and insults didn't start with me, get it through your head. It started with Aruana.

I did not insult you. You insult yourself in the way you speak to people. A person can have some knowledge but when you come across as arrogant and unreasonable then you are doing this to your own image...... you do not need anyone to point it out ........ it is obvious.

JW insider is consistently polite and decent.... and you are now speaking in a most disrespectful way. ...... because I insulted you?  Now that is truly logical - lol! 

Back to subject: I have studied other languages and know this about Greek.  When only one letter differs at the end of a word then it changes the meaning of the word.  TheoN  means God,  theoS  means : a god.

So when it comes to the word lord it would be the same. The language I am now learning has a letter or two at the end of the noun which is a preposition such as from, of, etc. 

 

4 hours ago, Witness said:

They didn't become an NGO simply to acquire a library card.

A non-governmental organization: please inform me what is wrong with this designation?

[JW Insider]

5 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Since you are going to start to post nonsense, correct yourself when I stated since both words mean the same in the lexicons, they need to be seen as separate entities.

If you believe that what I posted was nonsense, then I feel much better that I posted the clarification.

You are claiming now that you stated both words mean the same in the lexicons. It's good that you see that now. But you said the opposite before, so I'm glad it's straightened out. You said it was unfortunate that the lexicons use the same meaning for both, and this is exactly what the lexicons were supposed to if they are honest and correct. I don't think it's unfortunate when lexicons are honest and correct.

What you said was:

The distention made in Psalms is the same distention made in Matthew. YHWH is one, the son is another. Unfortunately, some lexicons use the same meaning for both (Kurios).
Therefore, there needs to be a separation between κυρίῳ noun dative masculine singular from κύριος.

The statement was, and is, completely untrue. We should hope that ALL lexicons use the same meaning for both kurios here, not just some of them. There needs to be no distinction in the lexical meaning of the two cases of the same word.

5 hours ago, César Chávez said:

The bolster and insults didn't start with me, get it through your head. It started with Aruana.

Seriously, this should have been seen as a favor to you. I was hoping that you'd be able to see a problem in starting out a post with statements like the following:

On 1/1/2020 at 12:00 PM, César Chávez said:

Seems certain people have been corrupted here enough not to know better about the word LORD!

The insult seemed unnecessary and all the more ironic when you then went on in the next sentences to show that you thought the two words for "Lord" had different lexical meanings, when they have the same lexical meaning.

5 hours ago, César Chávez said:

So, try to have an intellectual argument, by laying off your usual silliness of trying to ban just because you get upset and are losing an argument through established facts.

OK. You should know by now that I don't have the ability to ban anyone and don't even know the people who do have that ability. I hope you stay on without being upset and so defensive about everything.

5 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Also, you should read your own post above. The confusion comes from you not me.

Believe me! From past experience I never expected you to admit a mistake here or anywhere else. I probably sound haughty too to many people, but for a mistake I will gladly change my view wherever there is contrary evidence.

5 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Therefore, I don't need to research something you clearly disagree with, and stating you don't care about it is false, since you keep posting the same thing every year.

None of us needs to research anything just because someone brings a disagreement. But I keep posting that I don't care about the secular dates every year because I don't think these secular issues are relevant to a good understanding of the scriptures. I continue to engage in discussions about them because over time more and more Witnesses are going to be able to access the evidence that will make us look like we don't even care about honesty. Hopefully, the evidence we can go over now, will help us avoid bringing such reproach on our ministry. If I'm wrong about this evidence, I definitely want to know the "what, where, how and why."

 

[Arauna]

4 hours ago, César Chávez said:

This is just out of the top of my head, if memory serves.

I do the same.  I read stuff and then move on.