1914

[JW Insider]

49 minutes ago, Arauna said:

I have studied other languages and know this about Greek.  When only one letter differs at the end of a word then it changes the meaning of the word.  TheoN  means God,  theoS  means : a god.

Uh oh! Now look what I've done by bringing this up. Actually TheoN can mean "a god" or "God" and theoS can mean "a god" or "God."

Look at the Interlinear for Acts 28:6, for example, which uses "theon" here:

(Acts 28:6) . . .After they waited for a long time and saw that nothing bad happened to him, they changed their mind and began saying he was a god. [theon]

Look at the Interlinear for Matthew 22:32, for example, which uses "theos" here:

(Matthew 22:32) 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob’? He is the God, not of the dead, but of the living.” [theos x 4]

Lexically, it's the same word in both cases, and it's the context and sentence structure that makes a difference. If it's something God has, such as "the Word of God," it will be in the genitive case, or if something is given to god such as "prayer to God" or "you should love your God," it's usually in the accusative case. If it's the topic of the sentence, such as "God is love," then it is in the nominative case, etc. If you speak any German, there are many similarities you might recognize. I don't know any Arabic as you do, but I do know that Hebrew keeps some of these types of variations where the same word is changed depending on how it's used in the sentence.

[Arauna]

8 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

He is the God, not of the dead, but of the living.” [theos x 4]

As far as I know many languages do not have a seperate word for indefinite and definite article like in English.  This is what I understood about Greek when I looked at this many years ago.

A letter at the end of the word indicates the difference between "the God" and "a God".   So the theon above is translated correct because it says "the god" 

John 1 verse 1:  the God said to a god...... 

Al-lah also means "the god" .........the highest God. 

 

[JW Insider]

16 hours ago, Arauna said:

And if I remember correctly the festival of Akito was 14 days long. He went up into the tower of Babel (the temple on top) and slept with the high priestess. The people loved this festival with its many activities.

I think I've read that in some older works, maybe Alexander Hislop? Might've been referring to even more ancient practices. Here's a short version at https://www.livius.org/articles/religion/akitu/ that you might find interesting too. It's only officially a 7 day festival in this version, but who knows how long it was for those who had to prepare and travel.

17 hours ago, Arauna said:

Even when Syria became a dominating world  power in the region and there was strife between these countries- their cultures were intertwined. Several kings still travelled to Babylon to be crowned as king of kings - it was the tradition with great significance.

True. There were persons in the royal court of the Assyrians who seemlessly meshed right into the Neo-Babylonian courts. Seemed a bit like the way so many European courts "shared" royalty through marriage, or even other reasons, so that for many years around WWI, half a dozen heads of state in different European countries were all cousins. And the queens and princesses were "traded" and "sold" to create a kind of human bond between states that had windows of peace with one another.

15 hours ago, Arauna said:

20 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Even if 607 had been correct, it would have nothing to do with 1914, from a scriptural perspective.

Please explain this statement.

Well, the proposition here is that the 70 years of nations serving Babylon ran from ABOUT 607 to about 537. I don't fret over the exact years because I don't think it matters all that much to the prophecy of the 70 years. There's a good chance it ran from ABOUT 609 to about 539, too. In other words, the Assyrian world power waned, and the Babylonian world power gained. They were granted about 70 years of dominance over the nations around them, before the Medo-Persian empire gained ascendancy. As the Isaiah's Prophecy book states:

*** ip-1 chap. 19 p. 253 par. 21 Jehovah Profanes the Pride of Tyre ***
Isaiah goes on to prophesy: “It must occur in that day that Tyre must be forgotten seventy years, the same as the days of one king.” (Isaiah 23:15a) Following the destruction of the mainland city by the Babylonians, the island-city of Tyre will “be forgotten.” True to the prophecy, for the duration of “one king”—the Babylonian Empire—the island-city of Tyre will not be an important financial power. Jehovah, through Jeremiah, includes Tyre among the nations that will be singled out to drink the wine of His rage. He says: “These nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years.” (Jeremiah 25:8-17, 22, 27) True, the island-city of Tyre is not subject to Babylon for a full 70 years, since the Babylonian Empire falls in 539 B.C.E. Evidently, the 70 years represents the period of Babylonia’s greatest domination—when the Babylonian royal dynasty boasts of having lifted its throne even above “the stars of God.” (Isaiah 14:13) Different nations come under that domination at different times. But at the end of 70 years, that domination will crumble.

If you read the resources that Cesar has begun to recommend here, there is no claim among any of these new recommended historians that 607 was the date for the fall of Jerusalem in any of them, but that this date is considered a fairly close date for the beginning of the Babylonian domination that apparently ended around 539. Cesar has stated that he is OK with this "new chronology" even though it dates the fall of Jerusalem (Nebuchadnezzar's 18th year in 587) not 607.

This is why I say that the date 607 can be right for the beginning of the 70 years, even without any reference to 1914.

8 hours ago, Arauna said:

A letter at the end of the word indicates the difference between "the God" and "a God".   So the theon above is translated correct because it says "the god" 

This is not correct that it is a letter at the end of the word that indicates the difference. That's why we also see the example in Acts 28:6 where "theon" means "a god."

In this case both words are just different cases of the same lexical word theos. It's the context of the whole sentence that let's us know that there are two different types of divine beings or divinity being referenced. And Greek does have the definite article "the" but does not have an indefinite article "a." Since John 1:1 creates a distinction between a use of the definite for "God" we can tell that the distinction must be on purpose so that the second one IMPLIES "a god" or perhaps just the quality of being "divine." A being that has a quality of being divine, but is not "THE" God, might effectively be called "a god." Therefore this is not a bad translation at all. (In spite of a ton of criticism because it spoils a verse that is otherwise quite useful for Trinitarians.) 

But it's not those endings at the end of the word in this case. It's the fact that one "theos" has a "THE" in front of it and the other doesn't. The argument by Trinitarians and some Greek linguists, is that you don't NEED to always put a "THE" in front of "theos" to mean GOD. And even when you do, it doesn't mean that you always need to translate "THE" God each time. You wouldn't need to say "In the beginning, THE God created the heavens" because it sounds right to just say "In the beginning, God created the heavens."

[Witness]

20 hours ago, Arauna said:

A non-governmental organization: please inform me what is wrong with this designation?

It is a voluntary commitment which requires upholding the principles of the UN and its function.  It is a choice to become part of the world that the WT teaches its members to stay out of.  Of course, to uphold the principles of the Beast of WT, is sheer hypocrisy.

There are two general categories of NGOs: (1) operational NGOs, whose primary purpose is the design and implementation of development-related projects, and (2) advocacy NGOs, whose primary purpose is to defend or promote a specific cause and who seek to influence the policies and practices of IGOs – Intergovernmental Organizations.  (APA Office of International Affairs)

“Only those who do not wish to see, can be deceived”  D.H.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

14 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Nobody is. I need you to get the ball rolling. Have you gone back to celebrating Christmas yet? The books make great stocking stuffers.

Come now, don’t be mean to me. I am trying to help.

You have said that Armageddon might be 10 years or more in the future, and that the ‘true anointed’ (since the present one is no good) might manifest itself in 10 years or less. Thus it is conceivable that they might both happen at the ten year mark on the dot, and the situation of those saved will be like the baseball player sliding into home—the true anointed umpire waving him safe as the devil catcher misses with his tag.

So that this ridiculous situation does not happen, you must do all you can so that the ”true anointed,” when it appears, hits the ground running and doesn’t wait to the last moment to get moving. Some members of this “true anointed,” I gather, are still muzzled within JWorg—they can’t all be outside and have their own Facebook pages. If they were, they could start a Facebook group and go from there, lacking only the Great Eight, who they don’t like anyway.. So some must be current Witnesses who are treated terribly, held incommunicado, not allowed to communicate with one another. 

You can’t help them because the present arrangement is not pure enough for you and you cannot look upon what is bad. However, JTR is not so finicky and has no problem doing that. You can assign him to the role of “true helper” to those future members of the “true anointed.” He can thereby redeem himself in your eyes for seeing, as you do, how wicked everything is in the org but choosing to remain there still—give him the assignment. He can visit these mistreated anointed ones in their cells and even pass notes from one to another in case they want to communicate in strict violation of the rules. That way they will be in better shape when the true liberation comes.

Please, 4Jah, I am only trying to help. I think this suggestion might work.

 

 

I have pity for you @TrueTomHarley .  You find the need to misquote and mock but you have nothing better to offer. 

The True Anointed will be known long before the ten years. But it seems that JW Org won't be cleaned of the Child Sexual Abuse problem for at least another 2 or 3 years if ever. So one question must be would God / Christ use an immoral organisation ? 

I think you are mixing me up with @Witness when you mention the anointed 'being trapped within the JW Org'. I think Witness has that line of thinking. 

But your first line of comment shows your stupidity. Quote "Have you gone back to celebrating Christmas yet?  Did i ever celebrate Christmas, maybe not. No we did not celebrate your Christmas. Well it must be yours as you mentioned it. Christmas means nothing to me, neither does new year. 

Quote "You can’t help them because the present arrangement is not pure enough for you and you cannot look upon what is bad."

How pathetic you are Tom. I know you are a story teller and therefore have to exaggerate but you go beyond being funny. Tell my Tom, is the " present arrangement " pure enough for God and Christ ?  I think not Tom. Hence the Org seems to be being cleansed slightly by the 'superior authorities' of the world.. 

“Let every soul be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God; the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God.”—ROMANS 13:1. ( Watchtower online library ). 

Well it seems that God, through Christ, is using those 'superior authorities' to dig deep into your JW Org and maybe clean it up a bit. So maybe one day your JW Org might just turn around and recognise the True Anointed, and maybe your GB will be humble enough to step down, then let those True Anointed do their job. But all of that can only take place with the help and approval of God / Christ and through the use of Holy Spirit. By the way, that is Holy Spirit that your GB admit not having. 

But to you it seems, God and Christ can do nothing. Only your GB have power in your eyes. I'm sure it was you that once stated that no one can remove the GB. What a sad way of thinking. To give such praise to men instead of giving that praise to God through Christ. You choose whom you serve Tom, but do it carefully.  

 

[Witness]

On 1/2/2020 at 7:51 AM, 4Jah2me said:

NWT  Matthew 24 from v 1.

24  Now as Jesus was departing from the temple, his disciples approached to show him the buildings of the temple. ²  In response he said to them: “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, by no means will a stone be left here upon a stone and not be thrown down.”a³  While he was sitting on the Mount of Olives,b the disciples approached him privately, saying: “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?”d⁴  In answer Jesus said to them: “Look out that nobody misleads you,e ⁵  for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many.f ⁶  You are going to hear of wars and reports of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for these things must take place, but the end is not yet.g⁷  “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom,h and there will be food shortagesi and earthquakes in one place after another.j ⁸  All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress. or Birth ?

@JW Insider  So you are saying that Jesus was answering the question "When will the temple etc be destroyed ". Not giving a sign for OUR times.

And are you then saying that this scripture tells us NOT to look at the wars etc as a sign of our times ? 

@Arauna Seems to use the wars etc as a sign of the times NOW. 

The scripture says 'but the end is not yet'. 

And verse 8, NWT says pangs of distress but Interlinear Translation of GREEK SCRIPTURES says "beginning of pangs of birth".   Surely there is a big difference ? 

 

There is another Temple of “heavenly” Jerusalem today, that experiences these signs, but spiritually.  The anointed are under the New Covenant “woman” – the covenant/promise of life in Christ.  They also represent that promise. 

“woman” –

These things are being taken figuratively: The women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. ²⁵ Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. ²⁶ But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. 

The entirety of the promise, of the “woman” who gives “birth” to God’s Kingdom, is through the faithfulness of those who survive the spiritual rendition of the signs of Matt 24, that come against them. 

Individually, they are “stones” of the Temple, now scattered throughout the organization. (“will a stone be left here upon a stone”)  1 Pet 2:5,9 They are told not to bond together – why?  By following those orders, they put their trust in what men tell them.  This diverts their needed faithfulness only to Christ.  If today, they were united under Christ only, and not under a wicked slave and its counterfeit priests (Matt 24:48-51), the Kingdom would be here.  The Temple capstone would be in place.    Zech 4:5-9; Rom 8:19

I think we have to ask our self, who’s kingdom will vanish when God’s Kingdom is ushered in?  Who doesn’t want to see any of us to have full devotion to God and Christ?  To say that the anointed cannot bond has no basis in scripture.  It is doctrine that serves one purpose, to keep the Kingdom from arriving, by suppressing the anointed from listening to Jesus, and enforcing them to choose men’s lies instead. I would suppose if the anointed were to make a concerted effort to gather as one today, they would all be disfellowshipped.  Rev 13:15  The thing is, by doing so, they would be “conquering” Satan and his lies.  Rev 13:1,11,14-18; 11:3,7; 15:2

If it could just be understood by JWs that Satan relies on deceit to mislead us into following what may appear as truth, but is in fact a lie. 2 Thess 2:9,10  Truth is flipped over, becoming something that looks like truth, but instead is a twisted version of it.    “Demonic expressions” are the tool used by the Beast/organization and the false prophet who guides it.  And they are used against Jesus’ “kings of the earth”.  Rev 1:5; 16:13,14; 20:7-10   Many, choose to be deceived, (2 Thess 2: 9,10; Rev 19:19), while a remnant from among them, choose to listen to Christ.  Rev 3:18; 21:24

 "A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. ² She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. ³ Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. ⁴ Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born."  Rev 12:1-5

The “sign” in verse three of the dragon with ruling “heads” and “horns”, is Satan’s Beast. 

“It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name. “ Rev 13:1

To those part of the “woman”, the beast slanders the “heavenly” dwelling place of God – and that dwelling place is the anointed ones.  1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22

The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months. ⁶ It opened its mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. Rev 13:5,6

Times in Revelation are not physical times, but symbolic with symbolic meaning. 

“You are going to hear of wars and reports of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for these things must take place, but the end is not yet."  Matt 24:6

The Wild Beast “was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them.” And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. Rev 13:7

So, this “war” is in the form of “demonic expressions” – demonic lies, coated to appear as truth.  2 Thess 2:9-12  You can see the effects of this type of war here, or on other forums. You can witness the war that even he GB fight against by their use of the term “apostates”, who are 'cooking up lies in Satan’s kitchen'. The war is made evident also, when elders have the authority to judge the anointed as spiritually “dead”.  And, JWs are strictly told not to read anything by any other anointed or otherwise, but only what the “slave” produces. 

Not only are the anointed “conquered” with slanderous remarks such as they must not bond together, that they are not ruling priests but apparently elders are, the Beast has been given authority over all JWs; the  Beast, which is comprised of the elder body. Rev 13:7,8

The article “Labor Pains” is well worth reading that I’m posting on this forum.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

@Witness  But what then do you see as the next move forward ? 

I can see some of what you are saying as sensible. 

NOTE to @TrueTomHarley If I see something as sensible it does not mean that i believe it all. It just means that I can see some common sense in it. 

I would have thought that any True Anointed person would have no part of JW Org as it is right now. Why would they stay in a false religion ? And some of them serving as Elders  ?  

Wouldn't true Anointed Earthwide have the spiritual strength to 'gather together' via internet or other means ? Wouldn't God through Christ, give them the spiritual upbuilding ?

You know that I do expect a true Anointed to 'come forward', to be made known, within a few years or even sooner. And I also think JWs fears of humans destroying the Earth if it goes on much longer,  shows a lack of faith. However I do not pretend to know God's or Christ's ways of moving forward.  

I'm always interested in other people's sensible viewpoints. Sorry Tom Harley i said sensible.. 

[TrueTomHarley]

2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

I would have thought that any True Anointed person would have no part of JW Org as it is right now. Why would they stay in a false religion ? And some of them serving as Elders  ?  

Well, in that case your True Anointed would have to start up from scratch (in just 10 years or less), and when I floated that idea by you before, you had a cow over it.

2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Wouldn't true Anointed Earthwide have the spiritual strength to 'gather together' via internet or other means ? Wouldn't God through Christ, give them the spiritual upbuilding ?

Of course! There they are on Facebook, that site founded by the frat boy in order to rate women by their...um....attributes. Yes! A perfect spot for God to call his own!

Go back to being nonsensical, 4Jah—you don’t mess with people’s heads when you do that.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

21 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Well, in that case your True Anointed would have to start up from scratch (in just 10 years or less), and when I floated that idea by you before, you had a cow over it.

Of course! There they are on Facebook, that site founded by the frat boy in order to rate women by their...um....attributes. Yes! A perfect spot for God to call his own!

Go back to being nonsensical, 4Jah—you don’t mess with people’s heads when you do that.

Funny how you have to but in when I'm replying to someone else that has suggested something with logic. But you have no logic.............

I've no idea what you are talking about concerning Facebook. But then FB and you are both Americans I presume so never mind. It's probably why i can't understand half of what most of you say. It seems Americans have a totally different perspective on life than us British folks. 

See my new topic about the  'original' IBSA. 

But God could cleanse JW Org in whatever time He chose. If He chose 5 years to make your Org clean, then another 5 years until Judgement Day. Plenty of time. Or if God chose to form a new Org He could easily do that. 

You seem to forget that 'boots on the ground' JW congregants know nothing of the CSA, or of the misuse of scriptures by your GB. If JW congregants were shown True new light by the True Anointed, that could easily be 8.5 million people that would change to a true way of worshipping God. Plus all those misled Bible studies could learn real Truth. It would not be a difficult thing for God to achieve. Most congregants already have a 'good heart' but they are just being misled. So, all it takes is God's Holy Spirit and a change in direction. You of little faith. 

[Arauna]

1 hour ago, César Chávez said:

I'm not here to be admired. I'm here to speak the truth, and to let people

Same here.  So, no prob.  If you had anything to add about the festival of Akito that I do not know about - I am prepared to listen.

2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

True new light by the True Anointed, that could easily be 8.5 million people that would change to a true way of worshipping God. Plus all those misled Bible studies could learn real Truth. It would not be a difficult thing for God to achieve. Most congregants already have a 'good heart' but they are just being misled. So, all it takes is God's Holy Spirit and a change in direction. You of little faith. 

Isaiah 2:2-4  shows a nation in the  time of the end dedicated to name of jehovah that is world wide.  That nation already exists and similar to the time of Israel the nation is not perfect but serves a purpose.  It fulfills prophecies and does the final preaching work of the "kingdom".   While I agree with you that jehovah will clean the entire organization (start with his nation first) it does not mean that they do not fulfill his prophecies. 

 

 

[Witness]

3 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Of course! There they are on Facebook, that site founded by the frat boy in order to rate women by their...um....attributes. Yes! A perfect spot for God to call his own!

Go back to being nonsensical, 4Jah—you don’t mess with people’s heads when you do that.

Now Tom, I thought you were a facebook fan, having your own page.  Should I ask why you hang out there?

God calls PEOPLE his own, not an earthly organization of any kind.  John 4:21; Acts 7:48-50; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22

[Arauna]

6 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

JWs fears of humans destroying the Earth if it goes on much longer,  shows a lack of faith. However I do not pretend to know God's or Christ's ways of m

Jesus himself said that no flesh would be saved unless God stepped in. While it is not a teaching of ours to 'fear'  destruction of the earth there is a prophecy which shows we are indeed  'ruining' the earth. Rev 11:18.

I follow news regarding this issue and the true state if affairs regarding the biosphere is hidden from the public, while scientists are playing along with US government policy to hide the true state if affairs. 

Ice on Himalayas is melting as is a threat to the country of Bhutan, Maldives going down with rising waters.  Forests are dryer in certain areas, leaves and roots so dry that new saplings are dying. Fires in Sweden, Russia etc. The biggest secret is climate engineering..... on and on.... bla bla.... too much information available but people do not go there.

Hebr 11:1   Faith is based on evidence.  Blind faith is not faith.