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Witness
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44 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

but if Christ is truly with you and you said I claim the NKJV is accurate, and I quoteYou mentioned somewhere here, that you felt the NKJV was the more accurate choice of translation of the Bible.

 

You are right.  I misquoted you, and I apologize.  Your words to John Butler on 2/14 were:

“I would trust the KJV/NKJV 100% if I were you.  Several reasons, perhaps even more as to why I think as such, as do the majority of those who are aware of truth.”

These two versions define proskyneō  in  John 9:38 as “worship”, but you didn’t include them in your list earlier, yet you trust them.   

In each case, when concerning Jesus in the NWT, “proskyneo” is not defined as “worship”, with Rev. 5:12-14 as an exception; and there they HAD to, because God is mentioned. 

In the case of Satan, it is frequently, if not always, defined as “worship”; as well as with God.

Hypocrisy.

John 5:23 – “so that all people may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Anyone who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.”

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Witness said:

You are right.  I misquoted you, and I apologize.  Your words to John Butler on 2/14 were:

“I would trust the KJV/NKJV 100% if I were you.  Several reasons, perhaps even more as to why I think as such, as do the majority of those who are aware of truth.”

Clearly a typo, as I expected you would go for that exact mistake I was unable to edit that day for I didn't spare much time to re-read my comments in regards to trying to reason with John. Plus this is exactly the very reason I said the following:  I can tell you right now straight up, I do have a few typos elsewhere, for everything prior to debating with Swihili and Cos had several typos. In addition to that, well over a majority of my comments was to not rely on the errors of the KJV/NKJV, even debunking the King James as I did against Cos here, you even saw my response to Allen in regards to Textual Criticism (pretty much meaning anti-KJ Bible), as to which I will also link below. For if anyone checks my history, they will see my view on the KJV/NKJV as to not be 100% inspired due to its errors, but to use a typo compared to the hundreds of comments I made, half of them against the KJV/NKJV, you have no ground here, therefore, my numerous comments pretty much shows the KJV/NKJV isn't accurate, it is not 100% inspired, it has errors, etc.

For Textual Criticism comment to Allen: 

 

For if I truly felt that is was the best translation, I would not have said what I said to Allen.Nor would my comments debating with shiwili and Cos would bear any ground. In addition to that, my comments on your thread would something else other than the ESV.

For if anyone who adheres to Textual Criticism, does not 100% adhere to the KJV/NKJV, to anyone who takes into account of Textual Criticism, will know that such is a direct focus to the KJV/NKJV being in error and not accurate, for the addition of uninspired verses with what is inspired, thus blinding people and the falsehood that is taught from false verses.

Another thing to add, clearly in that very thread I had several of my typos in, I quotes directly from the English Translation Version of the Bible for every single one of my responses to your response, which consist of Watchtower publications and KJV scriptures from bible-gateway, some of which that contained the uninspired verses that you linked to fit the response you were pushing then, hence John's response - to which I said the following in my response to you before I spoke to John:

The fun factor here is I am the only one on this forum (minus all content) here who ever stated such and if you look up Textual Criticism, all of those comments are made by me, so you assuming I think the KJV/NKJV is somehow more accurate when 100% of the time I quote ESV and I speak against the King James, you are mistaken - nor are you even aware of my "other" comments to John.

That being said, using my older comments that consist of typos (ignoring my response to you in that same thread) will not cover too much ground for you, especially when anyone can click my profile and simply look up "KJV", "NKJV" "Errors" "Textual Criticism".

Another one against you, for you even knew my view on the KJV bible:

My earliest comment to you on Posted February 11 prior to my comment to John (clearly all of this thread and another one, I had several typos here, and elsewhere - as I stated before you even posted a typo in order to accuse me of something of which I fight against every single day):

Quote

Anyways I see you mentioned my first question somewhat. I can tell you right now you are incorrect. I will tell you this so you understand as to why, no matter the Christian denominations, Anti-Region groups are always up in our necks for those who teach what isn't bible canon, saying that we ignore Deuteronomy 4:2 and John 10:35b.

The bible isn't 100% accurate because of various scripture violations that has tainted the scriptures, even in the days of our church Fathers, who also fought against most non bible canons that some so called Christians tried to place into what we have know today, but it didn't stop those beyond the 4th century.

We know that the bible had not only removed God's name, but placed words and meanings of words over time, adding "Jesus" or "God" where it couldn't be, examples being 1 Timothy 3:16, Revelations 1:11, 1 John 5:7, which are said to be biblical forgeries and did not reflect that of what the disciples have wrote.

It is also said that bible verses have been added to the scriptures by translators, Man-Made verses, ignoring anything that pertains to the oldest and most reliable source being the 4th century manuscripts, mainly the Septuagint. These man-made verses can be found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_Testament_verses_not_included_in_modern_English_translations

Forgeries: http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_bibl.htm

One of the reasons why any bible other than the KJV/NKJV are not really used by majority of Christians, who tend to stick to their own bibles, despite a FEW errors being carried over, like the addition of Jesus in Jude (Jude 1:5) to make it seem Jesus saved the Egyptians, when it was his Father, this error is in the ESV, but there is a couple of bibles that are revised, and try to maintain to what the oldest sources say.

Reasons why Christians have to be careful to say that the bible is 100%, not being aware of the errors and additions that were added to the scriptures, for most Christians do not know any better, I spare for on this one because what is said is true on how some do not know this and can easily be targeted by Anti-Religious groups or in this cased, challenged by a very zealous Christian and or Muslim, or even worse, by an Atheist.

 

That being said it is already clear as day that the KJV/NKJV in my eyes is not 100% inspired and I wouldn't trust such a bible in the hands of one who will use it to preach a falsehood - let alone even tough it on bible gateway unless I have to prove something to the KJV-onlyist.

1 hour ago, Witness said:

These two versions define proskyne?  in  John 9:38 as “worship”, but you didn’t include them in your list earlier, yet you trust them.   

There is no such  2 versions prosskuneos, there is only one (if anything "part" of proskuneo is latreuo/latreuó -evidently means the same thing), let alone, there is only a single Strong's number for such word. John 9:38 has an occurrence of proskuneo and it is exactly of what I said previously.

proskuneo=proskuneó=proskyne?=pros-koo-neh'-o=?????????

I wouldn't really have to include them, for regardless of how it is pronounced, it means that same thing, one Strong, one Greek. The Strong's says it all, for if you clicked on the link it will be there.

For 2 different cannot can't have the same Strong's. It is somehow ridiculous to think as such.

1 hour ago, Witness said:

In each case, when concerning Jesus in the NWT, “proskyneo” is not defined as “worship”, with Rev. 5:12-14 as an exception; and there they HAD to, because God is mentioned.

Not really, for proskuneos is render to either of the words it is related to, for no one is foolish enough to trade religious worship of God to the Son because someone decided between adorn or worship, but ending up sticking with "worship", and there is only one denomination who will do such a thing.

Jesus in the NWT? There is only one Jesus, and there is only one Septuagint. As I said before, there is only one proskuneo, one Strong's, there is not another version of it, nor is there another Jesus, nor is there another God.

Revelations 5:12-14 - Proskuneo. Plus we see who is saying that word, and it was not God the Father. What is said in Revelations was that:

verse 12 is the angels and myriads saying what is said, for they have said the following: Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing!

The next verse: To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might forever and ever!, continues with the four creatures saying “Amen! and onward, the elders fell down and worshiped (proskuneo).

Why is this so? The verse points to Matthew 28:18, for Jesus has been given authority and power, next, we know he has become Lord and has risen because God has resurrected him, next, we know God had exalted him, made him above the angels in Heaven, therefore God's only command is seen in Hebrews, and the Angels bowed down to him or in this case, proskuneo.

Now after the Messianic reign, it is a totally different situation, thus making God's true objective become known, for his original plan will be set in motion.

There is a reason as to why such verses point back to the Four Gospels quite often and occasionally Hebrews.

God didn't say a word here in regards to John's vision, well in this specific chapter of course.

Facts:

In the Septuagint – the Greek Old Testament – ?????????? is used to express the concept of bowing to show respect to a person in a position of authority; but it is also used to convey the concept of showing reverence and submission, either to the true God of Israel or to the false gods of paganism. About seventy-five percent of the occurrences of ?????????? in the Septuagint express the concept of worship, whether it be of the God of Israel or of the gods of paganism. The following are examples of this word being used to express the concept of worship to the God of Israel: the servant of Abraham bowed down in worship (??????????) of the Lord after he found a wife for Isaac (Genesis 24:26); the Israelites in Egypt bowed in worship of God when they heard that God was going to deliver them (Exodus 4:31); during the dedication of Solomon's Temple—when the people saw the temple filled with the glory (remember what I said before about temple dwelling) of the Lord—they fell face down upon the ground and worshipped (??????????) the Lord (2 Chronicles 7:3).

1 hour ago, Witness said:

In the case of Satan, it is frequently, if not always, defined as “worship”; as well as with God.

Hypocrisy.

The Septuagint, the very manuscript that enables us to even have bibles today, it isn't hypocrisy for that is what we have for the originals have been destroyed. What is hypocrisy is those who tampered with the scriptures over time, something I stated here time and time again, Textual Criticism and the use of the oldest source possible.

I believe, as do many others, Satan did have involvement with having his agents tamper with scripture, this is why today translations that try to restore bible verses to its original form, well from the copy, omit verses that you would normally find in the KJV/NKJV, for the verses found, there is quite a few, are not biblical canon - and such persons add to the word uninspired things not of God, examples like the poison and snakes, that Jesus saved an adulterous woman, things like that, to which believe believe to be true when in reality it is false.

But Hebrew and Greek professor even acknowledge that in some translations, worship is throw into places it should be - the reason for this is some translations are attempting to pain Jesus as Yahweh/Jehovah, in doing so.

1 hour ago, Witness said:

John 5:23 – “so that all people may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Anyone who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.”

Already obvious from my older posts. By honoring the Son, you honor the Father, vice versa. this reflects what is seen in Luke 10:16, John 15:23 and 1 John 2:23.

But for John 5:23, Greek Strong's #5091 is being used here, 3 times it has been used. ???????, not ???????????.

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On 3/7/2018 at 10:32 PM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

18. Attorney Goal Line Defense

a. Attorneys are not subject to intimidation like normal people, but if you cower, they will smell blood and strike. Instead of being tough or humble, play it cool. Be calm and matter of fact. Adopt an air that indicates you have no concern over the deal, that everyone knew the deal would happen.

In context, these are actually the words of Robert Ringer, but I do recognize them as being valid.

Unfortunately, the Society's Lawyers, who should be fighting for Truth, and Justice, and honoring Jehovah's Name and purposes, have the same attitude towards victims of institutionalized child sex abuse ... and fight the victims and pervert true JUSTICE to save money for their clients, whoever they might be.

Actually, they are in a "Catch 22" situation ... they legally have a fiduciary responsibility to work in their employer's interests ... and Justice be damned .....

...and it is.

The reasons Lawyers can swim in any ocean on Earth, and not fear being bitten by sharks ... is professional courtesy.

 

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On 3/9/2018 at 6:51 PM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

In context, these are actually the words of Robert Ringer, but I do recognize them as being valid.

Unfortunately, the Society's Lawyers, who should be fighting for Truth, and Justice, and honoring Jehovah's Name and purposes, have the same attitude towards victims of institutionalized child sex abuse ... and fight the victims and pervert true JUSTICE to save money for their clients, whoever they might be.

Actually, they are in a "Catch 22" situation ... they legally have a fiduciary responsibility to work in their employer's interests ... and Justice be damned .....

...and it is.

The reasons Lawyers can swim in any ocean on Earth, and not fear being bitten by sharks ... is professional courtesy.

 

Robert Ringer the entrepreneur?

Also that is true, but it would seem they do not want to break scripture or any religious law while doing so, hence fighting for justice and what is true at the same time despite being bounded by scriptural law too. For most religious groups who have their own lawyers tend to not attempt to break the religious views of their clients while fighting/defending such persons.

The only time there is total pressure against laws based on the bible is in areas such as the Middle East, sometimes in the European countries it varies to the point where at times they get a religious group to cry uncle in some cases. Israel had already had a field day with religious law vs secular law a few weeks ago - in this case, Israelis vs the Jews.

Some Lawyers in general tend to be in some cases whereas they are defending someone who should be obviously guilty of their crimes, so the fear of being bitten by sharks is somewhat high and bite mark that at times will leave a scar on them.

Speaking of lawyers (a bit off topic) who are not truly fan of people who they are end up defending, an example of recent events involve this clown: Martin Shkreli, for his very lawyer, Benjamin Brafman, who said the following"Sometimes I Want to Punch Him in the Face" even admits to federal officials, however he did add that the sentencing was harsh - for the very man, Martin, is hated by literally majority of the US, is getting 7 years.

But yeah there is a really big line between civil, secular and religious when it comes to the law, and lawyers will do what is best to not attempt to break at the same time, trying to avoid getting bitten by said sharks because there is a lot of them - for a single bite or two will leaving a scar and a reminder.

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On 3/12/2018 at 2:12 AM, Nana Fofana said:

As regards economic consequences, Ashby Bladen, a senior vice president of The Guardian Life Insurance Company of America, writes: “Before 1914 the monetary and the financial systems were compatible. . . . If one takes August 1914 as marking the dividing line between them, the contrasts between the nineteenth and the twentieth centuries are striking. In many aspects of human affairs there has been a complete reversal of trend. . . . One major reason was the severance of the linkage between the financial system and money with intrinsic value that began in 1914. . . . The breaking of the linkage was a momentous event. . . . 1914 marked a radical, and in the end catastrophic, transformation of that system.”

Yeah a lot of things took place prior to, during and after 1914. You'd be surprise of how many people believe that such year was big to some. In the world of Christianity, there are those who side with what the Bible Student leader, CTR, said. Though some of these groups have already ceased, they did take such a year with high consideration, as well as the aftermath.

Nowadays, it is more of mainstream Christians and those who bible bash or don't take into consideration of what the bible says or understand it, will be against what took place that year, as for you JWs, they tend to go open season on you guys on a daily basis without understanding anything at times. There are also those against other things like the fall of Sodom and Gomorah, The chariots under the Red Sea, trying to disprove that pillar of salt was not really Lot's wife, etc., in addition, false doctrines is the reason as to why Christianity is on the decline for some time now, with Islam catching up, especially in both Asia and European countries.

The other day, I had to deal with a mainstream Christian who was taught and believes that Homosexuality was okay with God. I told him exactly what the bible says, I also stated I do not hate anyone at all, but I do not like the conduct of such persons and told him that such conduct does not sit well with God, yet he attempts to refute, but fails.

I say to myself everyday, the world today will be and is basically like those in the days of Noah, and those who were down in Sodom and Gomorah who did not listen and kept doing vile things in the face of God.

In the end, endurance is key and real truth is like a car that gets closer and closer to your destination, eventually some will come to their sense and try to change their ways, for God's hand is always there for those who wants to change.

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