At what moment "The Truth" has ceased to be "The Truth"?

[Evacuated]

13 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

the majority of the Anointed are pushed to the sidelines

Who says this?

13 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

the GB also stated in writing that some may even be mentally ill.

Are they not?

13 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

So, who gave them permission to call themselves the FDS ?

Why would they need permission? Who from?

13 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Who gave them permission to judge who should be the important ones and who should not ?

Who is it who makes the assessment of who is or is not important? And who is it that is considered unimportant?

Sorry to be picky, but I think you need to get your ducks in a line if you are going to start firing out these kind of questions.

13 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Unfortunately you are worshipping you GB by not even questioning them.

This is just insulting. I think you must really be in pain. It just isn't healthy to be so obsessed with jibing the GB all the time and others too. Are you trying to cause pain to people or something? I just don't get it. 'Spose it's a social media inadequacy really.

[Baruq JW]

Jesus asked a question: “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?". He did not gave the answer. The only clue he gave is how we can recognise the evil slave:  "he starts to beat his fellow slaves and to eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards".

Now, we have no way to know who is the FDS, but by examining Christianity, including us as Jehovah's Witnesses, we can understand that all the leadership (from Papacy to Governing Body) are beating the flock.

The faithful slave will be appointed over all his belongings when Jesus returns, not before. (verse 47 of Matthew 24 is clear) So, how can the GB claims that they have been appointed on Jehovah's organisation since the first part of the 20th century?

[Thinking]

On 11/8/2018 at 10:51 AM, BillyTheKid46 said:

I believe the self-righteous and judgmental comes from people like. Perhaps this is why you display spiritual immaturity. If you want to use your arrogance to insult, your no brother of mine. I've had a family member raped. So, don't get sanctimonious with me boy.

At a circuit assembly the Bethel brother stated that a lot of elders had to learn to yield to each other as many were  irritating each other and even leaving congs to attend others....they had to learn to be wronged ..and act with graciousness......for the sake of peace I will yield.   ....even tho I’m the lowly older sister ..

On 11/8/2018 at 2:08 PM, Witness said:

Wt. 1964/10/1 - "Those who do not read can hear, for God has on earth today a PROPHETLIKE ORGANIZATION, just as he did in the days of the early Christian congregation."

Wt. 972/4/1 -  "Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a 'prophet' of God. It is another thing to prove it. The only way that this can be done is to review the record. What does it show?" 

How do you think the prophetic claims are made?  Who voices them?  Someone other than the GB?  Their "prophesy" is not inspired by Holy Spirit, but through demonic "inspiration".  

Review the record.  It shows nothing but failed prophesy.  

 

[Thinking]

On 11/8/2018 at 2:51 AM, JOHN BUTLER said:

I no longer attend meetings due to the Child Abuse problem earthwide in the JW Org. I left the Org in January of this year. I could not be part of what I'd found about. I could not encourage other people in to such dangerous situations. 

If i had stayed I would have passed on information to other congregants, then I would have been disfellowshipped for 'Causing a division within the congregation'. It was better for me to leave of my own choice and be free to use my own voice to tell anyone that would listen.

I could have stayed and become completely inactive, a Jehovah's bystander. But that would have silenced me, and by doing so, make me part of the problem. In my opinion if a person knows of danger but keeps quiet then they are almost as bad as the ones causing the danger. 

Many here say I am giving false alarms, but we each have to weigh up the situation and deal with it as we think best. 

 

Well tho I understand your reasoning I don’t agree with it...it would be better for you to stay and be discreet in aiding where you feel the need....just as Jesus said  there would always be poor amongst us...I would also like to apologise because I do see active witnesses constantly posting laughs after many people’s comments....that’s just immature and rude...we dont laugh at  people on the doors...so we shouldn’t here...

but you are going down a wrong track and I know you don’t beleive that...it’s sad..and so unnecessary....but I guess others have tried to help you see this so I’ll leave of now...

just imagine if you had been around when there were temple prostitutes....yet Jehovah still used that system and allowed that for a Time being ....

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

14 hours ago, Thinking said:

just imagine if you had been around when there were temple prostitutes....yet Jehovah still used that system and allowed that for a Time being ....

That is an EXTREMELY good example .... that fact rock solid hard evidence, not agenda based fluffery and fuzzy thinking!

I am as critical of all the crap going on as anybody here is ... and probably know as much or more than most well educated people about such things .... but I have learned through interactions with MANY kinds of "organizations", not to expect too much from people in groups.

The example I most often recall to mind is this:

If you understand the Mission of the United States Marines, and their necessity in the real world to defend what is honorable, true and righteous ( ... in a very limited absolute sense ...), then for some, that mission was what you were born to do .... be a "Sheepdog", with fangs and claws ... to be the "point of the spear", to protect your fellow sheep ... who are many times scared of you.

It entails willingness to die, or live the rest of your life mangled and broken.  That's what the job IS.

But as the "Peter Principle", a VERY famous business principle states (paraphrased) "Everyone rises in rank to their own level of incompetency".

You could be a very good Marine Sargent, and rise to be an incompetent Marine Lieutenant, etc., ad infinitum. 

A committee is a peculiar life form with at least six legs, and no brain.

This is ESPECIALLY true in fuzzy subjects such as Theology, where everyone is jousting for favor and position with God, and gets used to great piles of free money .... considering it their due.

The Governing Body is NOT the exception, and they have 16 legs.

This is ESPECIALLY true with anyone claiming to speak for God, whether it is kissing the Pope's ring, or admiring the Governing Body's Rolex watches and gold pinkie rings.

When you begin to live like Kings, that vow of poverty becomes irrelevant.

14 hours ago, Thinking said:

just imagine if you had been around when there were temple prostitutes....yet Jehovah still used that system and allowed that for a Time being .... 

That  bears repeating, over and over ... as there is a VERY important core principle embedded in that innocuous  rock solid and true observation.

I personally fully understand that, and though I sigh and cry over all the unnecessary burdens and smelly crap we have to carry ... that I personally have been expected to carry over the years ... and silly irrelevant drivel we are expected to swallow, hook-line-and-sinker ... I still want to be a "Marine" .... just not an Officer.

The biggest problem we have ... is HAVING to recruit from deeply flawed but presumably well intentioned humans.

.... sigh.

... so does the United States Marines ... and THEY have rifles.

[Space Merchant]

@Srecko Sostar

I ask you and Witness again - where is the claim of inspired prophets? Surely if you speak of them as though they had said such a thing, you'd have information about this.

So take this account of which the both of you had been put to task about because as of right now, we can see no claim of inspired prophets, anywhere, whatsoever. And by means of Christendom history regarding anti-Trinitarians.

 

I rather not drop a bombshell of critical information of a prophet and an inspired prophet on the both of you because it will end up like the other discussion of the both of you openly accepting Traditions of Men, for last time the both of you were not too happy of actual Biblical Facts.

 

I'd like to add that Prophet-Like is a direct refers to their religious organization (as stated by them the one true religion claim, which there is evidence of), and that same paragraph even tells you this, as with more evidence of them not being inspired prophets noted in other half of the paragraph, may I ask, why is it that both you and Witness cut this out, Butler too?

He designates these Christians as his “faithful and discreet slave.” (Matt. 24:45-47) This “slave” group is strictly commanded: “Do not treat prophesyings with contempt.” (1 Thess. 5:20) This has proved true of Jehovah’s anointed witnesses on earth. They pay attention to prophecy with the greatest respectfulness. They have corrected themselves when prophecy revealed their own shortcomings. They have not held back when prophecy has condemned practices followed even in Christendom. (Isa. 58:1) Yes, they have proclaimed the prophecies written in God’s Word even though this has brought world hatred toward them.—Matt. 24:9.

Until then, the claim of inspired prophet is unfounded. You can belittle a child with trickery, but not someone who can discern and or can further into the information than most.

[JOHN BUTLER]

17 hours ago, Outta Here said:

Who says this?

Are they not?

Why would they need permission? Who from?

Who is it who makes the assessment of who is or is not important? And who is it that is considered unimportant?

Sorry to be picky, but I think you need to get your ducks in a line if you are going to start firing out these kind of questions.

This is just insulting. I think you must really be in pain. It just isn't healthy to be so obsessed with jibing the GB all the time and others too. Are you trying to cause pain to people or something? I just don't get it. 'Spose it's a social media inadequacy really.

Seems to me you cannot handle the real truth. That is you own problem, you have to deal with it yourself. 

[JOHN BUTLER]

7 hours ago, Thinking said:

Well tho I understand your reasoning I don’t agree with it...it would be better for you to stay and be discreet in aiding where you feel the need....just as Jesus said  there would always be poor amongst us...I would also like to apologise because I do see active witnesses constantly posting laughs after many people’s comments....that’s just immature and rude...we dont laugh at  people on the doors...so we shouldn’t here...

but you are going down a wrong track and I know you don’t beleive that...it’s sad..and so unnecessary....but I guess others have tried to help you see this so I’ll leave of now...

just imagine if you had been around when there were temple prostitutes....yet Jehovah still used that system and allowed that for a Time being ....

Yes I believe Jehovah has allowed much wickedness within JW Org, and I believe He has withheld His holy spirit from the JW Org too. 

But think of it from a different direction, Jehovah has often listened to His people. Maybe He has been waiting for those with a proper conscience to complain and moan about the condition of JW Org. I've said for many years that JW's do not take serving God seriously enough. It becomes part of their life and just becomes routine. My own brother who is an Elder would actually watch television whilst studying. Others whilst on the ministry would be looking for things in people's gardens, such as old classic cars that might be for sale. Using the ministry as an excuse to nose into people's property. Yes I've seen these things with my own eyes, and they just laugh as if it's the right thing to do. Then at the KH they look so upright and proper. So two faced. And I honestly believe that Jehovah is now judging the GB, the JW Org, the Elders, and the whole situation. Hence I do believe that Jehovah will remove the GB and straighten out the JW Org, then I will most probably return. But I will not be part of the disgusting things going on in the Org now. 

[Kosonen]

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

@Srecko Sostar 

He designates these Christians as his “faithful and discreet slave.” (Matt. 24:45-47) This “slave” group is strictly commanded: “Do not treat prophesyings with contempt.” (1 Thess. 5:20) This has proved true of Jehovah’s anointed witnesses on earth. They pay attention to prophecy with the greatest respectfulness. They have corrected themselves when prophecy revealed their own shortcomings. They have not held back when prophecy has condemned practices followed even in Christendom. (Isa. 58:1) Yes, they have proclaimed the prophecies written in God’s Word even though this has brought world hatred toward them.—Matt. 24:9.

Was that a qoute from a Watchtower? 

If so I have several objections. The book of Revelation sternly warns about the mark of the beast, but WT org pays very little attention to that and downplays the matter as just a symbolic mark of the beast. While the Revelation clearly points out that this "mark of the beast" will be very real. The Revelation says that you will not be able to buy or sell without that mark during a specific time period of 42 months. The WT org is doing nothing to inform JWs how to materially survive during that time period. That is because they insist that the mark of the beast is only symbolic. And that this period of 42 months has nothing to do with our life because it happened 100 years ago.

That is really a tricky way to divert attention from the prophesies. But I think the GB is blind in this aspect. And what Jesus said happens once again: A blind guides a blind. And that will have consequences. That will lead to trouble. That is why there will be a world wide persecution and a time of great tribulation.

But there will be a literal or even several literal wildernesses to flee to.

 

[JOHN BUTLER]

3 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

That is an EXTREMELY good example .... that fact rock solid hard evidence, not agenda based fluffery and fuzzy thinking!

I am as critical of all the crap going on as anybody here is ... and probably know as much or more than most well educated people about such things .... but I have learned through interactions with MANY kinds of "organizations", not to expect too much from people in groups.

The example I most often recall to mind is this:

If you understand the Mission of the United States Marines, and their necessity in the real world to defend what is honorable, true and righteous ( ... in a very limited absolute sense ...), then for some, that mission was what you were born to do .... be a "Sheepdog", with fangs and claws ... to be the "point of the spear", to protect your fellow sheep ... who are many times scared of you.

It entails willingness to die, or live the rest of your life mangled and broken.  That's what the job IS.

But as the "Peter Principle", a VERY famous business principle states (paraphrased) "Everyone rises in rank to their own level of incompetency".

You could be a very good Marine Sargent, and rise to be an incompetent Marine Lieutenant, etc., ad infinitum. 

A committee is a peculiar life form with at least six legs, and no brain.

This is ESPECIALLY true in fuzzy subjects such as Theology, where everyone is jousting for favor and position with God, and gets used to great piles of free money .... considering it their due.

The Governing Body is NOT the exception, and they have 16 legs.

This is ESPECIALLY true with anyone claiming to speak for God, whether it is kissing the Pope's ring, or admiring the Governing Body's Rolex watches and gold pinkie rings.

When you begin to live like Kings, that vow of poverty becomes irrelevant.

That  bears repeating, over and over ... as there is a VERY important core principle embedded in that innocuous  rock solid and true observation.

I personally fully understand that, and though I sigh and cry over all the unnecessary burdens and smelly crap we have to carry ... that I personally have been expected to carry over the years ... and silly irrelevant drivel we are expected to swallow, hook-line-and-sinker ... I still want to be a "Marine" .... just not an Officer.

The biggest problem we have ... is HAVING to recruit from deeply flawed but presumably well intentioned humans.

.... sigh.

... so does the United States Marines ... and THEY have rifles.

 

 

 

Once again you are funny. But however the situation isn't funny. 

And using the US Marines is a great example as it brings us back to  COLLATERAL DAMAGE. 

It kinda proves my point really too. It seems Americans are raised on this stuff. And they seem to think it has to be so. 

"Everyone rises in rank to their own level of incompetency". Is this really how you see your GB ? I don't, I see them as deliberately deceitful, a big difference. 

The bit that bears repeating is the last few words "and allowed that for a Time being " 

Maybe that' time being' has now ended. Maybe Jehovah wants Jesus Christ to sort the GB and the JW Org out NOW. Maybe they are happy that some of us actually have a good conscience and will put ourselves at a disadvantage so that we are pleasing to God. 

Oh so easy to stay 'in the warm' and have one's ears tickled and have all those 'friends'. Not so easy to step outside 'into the cold' and be alone. But in the end God and Jesus Christ kow who does what for the right reasons. 

[Srecko Sostar]

2 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

we can see no claim of inspired prophets, anywhere, whatsoever.

who sees see what is not possible to see :)))

For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

"inspired"

"motivated"

"carried along by"

:))

At least four-five spirits are in existence and have influence:

 1)JHVH spirit   2)Jesus spirit   3) Holy spirit    4) Devil spirit    5))Human spirit   

So, we are living in a World/Worlds with so many INSPIRATION and INSPIRED persons :))))

[Space Merchant]

52 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

who sees see what is not possible to see :)))

For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

"inspired"

"motivated"

"carried along by"

:))

At least four-five spirits are in existence and have influence:

 1)JHVH spirit   2)Jesus spirit   3) Holy spirit    4) Devil spirit    5))Human spirit   

So, we are living in a World/Worlds with so many INSPIRATION and INSPIRED persons :))))

I'm asking you for a claim on their word - not mental gymnastics.

Example would be, everyone knows the Jehovah's Witnesses/Watchtower have stated, even made claim to say that they are the one true religion, and anyone can bring up them quoting this claim. I am asking you for the claim of inspired prophets, but you are tap dancing around what is being asked and the sheer unawareness of a prophet and inspired prophet differences.

But here we see I am asking you for bread, but you continue to hand over to me biscuits, and clearly I rather have bread, even asked you for bread, never once I asked you for biscuits, but that is all you continue to give.

To this shall remain unfounded for no Anti-Trinitarian will ever make such a claim, and alas you and Witness show yourself to be fruitless, once again. Perhaps next time use something that is actually said for - it did not stop you before.