Suicide. God's view. Organisation's view

[TrueTomHarley]

16 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Those people who going to war because they want to help people, are ready to put  themselves  in danger situation for (theoretically) only one reason - to help known and unknown people on cost of own life.

WWI, WWII, Vietnam, Gulf War, Spanish-American, Civil War, to name a few. “People helping people:”—I admit I have never looked upon it that way. You are on to something, Srecko.

To be sure, many will go to war with noble intentions. What the overall picture shows, however, is that “man is dominating man to his injury.” Isn’t there a religion somewhere that points to the solution to that predicament?

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

20 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

WWI, WWII, Vietnam, Gulf War, Spanish-American, Civil War, to name a few. “People helping people:”—I admit I have never looked upon it that way. You are on to something, Srecko.

To be sure, many will go to war with noble intentions. What the overall picture shows, however, is that “man is dominating man to his injury.” Isn’t there a religion somewhere that points to the solution to that predicament?

Yes, One of the good points about JW Org 

[Srecko Sostar]

11 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

WWI, WWII, Vietnam, Gulf War, Spanish-American, Civil War, to name a few. “People helping people:”—I admit I have never looked upon it that way. You are on to something, Srecko.

To be sure, many will go to war with noble intentions. What the overall picture shows, however, is that “man is dominating man to his injury.” Isn’t there a religion somewhere that points to the solution to that predicament?

Of course, when you take "sword" (of any kind. literal and spiritual too) in your hand many things can go wrong. 

But, i know that you understand what i was talking about. Your objection about my comment is "just for the sake of the public and to write something". :)))

Wars in OT including Abraham to David and other individuals, and nation Israel, can be viewed and explained under both lights.

 

[TrueTomHarley]

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

But, i know that you understand what i was talking about. Your objection about my comment is "just for the sake of the public and to write something". :)))

Yes, I do understand what you were talking about and what you were talking about was ridiculous. You instantly pounce on Jehovah’s Witnesses for much lesser violations of logic.

Notice how your ally-of-late agreed with me and not you? It is because he still believes in God. He still thinks this life is not all there is.

If you believe in God, my remark makes sense. If you believe material things are all there are, they may not. Just be honest about where you are coming from. It is no more than what Paul said:

“But a physical man does not accept the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot get to know them, because they are examined spiritually.”  1 Corinthians 2:14

[Space Merchant]

I recall bringing this up a while back myself regarding suicide, as well as suicidal Christians.

 

 

[Matthew9969]

On ‎11‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 1:30 PM, TrueTomHarley said:

WWI, WWII, Vietnam, Gulf War, Spanish-American, Civil War, to name a few. “People helping people:”—I admit I have never looked upon it that way. You are on to something, Srecko.

To be sure, many will go to war with noble intentions. What the overall picture shows, however, is that “man is dominating man to his injury.” Isn’t there a religion somewhere that points to the solution to that predicament?

Yeah, a lot of men had great intentions of stopping Hitler and freeing your brothers and sisters from his concentration camps.

On ‎11‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 5:22 PM, Anna said:

Would dying by going to war for your country be suicide?

Well is it?

[Thinking]

On 11/15/2019 at 5:22 AM, DespicableME said:

This is a spot on characterization here, that's also my opinion.

Something like Aaron making the golden calf because the people told him to make that false idol, just because Moses was taking to long to return. I forget, what happened to those people?

Rubbish….what you have here are witnesses who do not worship the GB and can think for them selves yet still respect the GB in promoting and getting the basic plan that Jehovah’s has for the world out to the people.

They make mistakes and some big ones at that…the disfellowshlpment over organ transplanting is one of them….

They make mistakes just like any other ancient Godly men of old…just like King David did….just like Moses did…just like Peter did….

we just do not panic and flee when we see these errors…something may stump us or rattle us…but maturity and understanding that Jehovah uses faulty men aids many of us to stay with in the camp boundaries…at that time we would not have hung around the mob that demanded the building of the golden calf…..as tempting as it may have been when one is in panic mode which is what they did.

Im in..and mentally in as well…but I have always seen the GB down thru the ages are mere men who do make mistakes and are not actually inspired…so I and many others act like the beroeans did and check with the scriptures first …

As to what happened to those that followed Aaron with the making of the golden calf….When Moses came back…he still gave them an option of standing beside him…before he ( Jehovah /Jesus) destroyed the rest who did not take him up on that offer….around 3,000 were destroyed…not a huge number compared to the millions that came out.

That is a lesson for all witnesses today…not to leave the camp because of trouble with in it even if that trouble comes from someone as high up as the second man in charge as Arron was…..actually the first man in charge whilst Moses was absent…..a thought to ponder on…

I’m not saying that there are not witnesses who do exactly as the GB always directs thinking it comes directly from Jehovah…because there are…but there are many who sit and listen and work things out for them selves…as we have here on this site….

[Pudgy]

.... pray toward heaven .... row toward shore.

 

 

3 hours ago, Thinking said:

I’m not saying that there are not witnesses who do exactly as the GB always directs thinking it comes directly from Jehovah…because there are…but there are many who sit and listen and work things out for them selves…as we have here on this site….

[Srecko Sostar]

4 hours ago, Thinking said:

On 11/14/2019 at 7:52 PM, DespicableME said:

This is a spot on characterization here, that's also my opinion.

Something like Aaron making the golden calf because the people told him to make that false idol, just because Moses was taking to long to return. I forget, what happened to those people?

I would say, how can we draw a parallel from the characters of Moses and Aaron. WTJWorg is considered the successor of all of God’s organizations that have emerged throughout history, to use their logic. Noah's Ark = God's Organization, Nation Israel = God's Organization, First Assembly = God's Organization, WTBTS = God's Organization.
However, each of the above had "Earth Representatives", so Moses would be the archetype of GB, and Aaron would be the representative of today's Helpers.
Both of today’s classes at WTJWorg feel that they are inspired (guided) by God and that their instructions should be followed without discussion.
As with Moses and Aaron, who made compromises to please the people, so today’s religious leaders are making changes in theology and practice. Sometimes they are a relief to the people, and sometimes an additional burden.
So, enough about the alleged "spirit guidance". Because the comment provided by Thinking proves this setting or thesis.

4 hours ago, Thinking said:

Rubbish….what you have here are witnesses who do not worship the GB and can think for them selves yet still respect the GB in promoting and getting the basic plan that Jehovah’s has for the world out to the people.

They make mistakes and some big ones at that…the disfellowshlpment over organ transplanting is one of them….

They make mistakes just like any other ancient Godly men of old…just like King David did….just like Moses did…just like Peter did….

we just do not panic and flee when we see these errors…something may stump us or rattle us…but maturity and understanding that Jehovah uses faulty men aids many of us to stay with in the camp boundaries…at that time we would not have hung around the mob that demanded the building of the golden calf…..as tempting as it may have been when one is in panic mode which is what they did.

Im in..and mentally in as well…but I have always seen the GB down thru the ages are mere men who do make mistakes and are not actually inspired…so I and many others act like the beroeans did and check with the scriptures first …

As to what happened to those that followed Aaron with the making of the golden calf….When Moses came back…he still gave them an option of standing beside him…before he ( Jehovah /Jesus) destroyed the rest who did not take him up on that offer….around 3,000 were destroyed…not a huge number compared to the millions that came out.

That is a lesson for all witnesses today…not to leave the camp because of trouble with in it even if that trouble comes from someone as high up as the second man in charge as Arron was…..actually the first man in charge whilst Moses was absent…..a thought to ponder on…

I’m not saying that there are not witnesses who do exactly as the GB always directs thinking it comes directly from Jehovah…because there are…but there are many who sit and listen and work things out for them selves…as we have here on this site….

Like other leaders of the people, GB and Helpers = Administration, monitor the beats and pulse of their people. When the pressure in the “body” of the assembly becomes too high something must be done. In other words, there are changes in interpretations. You who are permanent members of the JW Assembly are better informed about the new changes, bigger and smaller. Sometimes they have to come because of changes in the “outside world,” and most come because of internal events.

It is unfortunate that you, JW members, who see the reality within WTJWorg, are still trying to defend what is indefensible. Because if a certain theology still lives in WTJWorg, and you are willing to support and defend it, how will you feel when it is changed, and you knew something was wrong?

Some of you are already resisting the "nonsense" that comes from GB, while at the same time you are watching some of your spiritual brothers and sisters stumble under the burden of theology that you are aware has failed. ............. Don't you feel sad? Don't you want to help them not be afraid of man?

[Witness]

10 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Some of you are already resisting the "nonsense" that comes from GB, while at the same time you are watching some of your spiritual brothers and sisters stumble under the burden of theology that you are aware has failed. ............. Don't you feel sad? Don't you want to help them not be afraid of man?

Those questions should pierce the heart of every JW.

“Teacher, which command in the law is the greatest?”

³⁷ He said to him, “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.  ³⁸ This is the greatest and most important command. ³⁹ The second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself. ⁴⁰ All the Law and the Prophets depend on these two commands.”  Matt 22:36-40

If the congregations were practicing these two “laws”, no one would be disfellowshipped or shunned for exposing the danger of men’s superiority over them, and exposing their false doctrines. Love of God and neighbor would require it.  If the leadership demand obedience to their word, they are exalting themselves above the words of Christ.  What's more important, allowing your neighbor to be stumbled by the "burden of theology", or leading your neighbor to the "simplicity that is in Christ"? (2 Cor 11:3)

 

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

14 hours ago, Thinking said:

Rubbish….what you have here are witnesses who do not worship the GB and can think for them selves yet still respect the GB in promoting and getting the basic plan that Jehovah’s has for the world out to the people.

They make mistakes and some big ones at that

What you actually have IS JWs that are slaves of the GB.

1. Because the GB say that they are the 'Faithful and discreet Slave'

2. Because JWs have always only used GB material to witness to others.

3. JWs standing by a cart / trolly giving out GB propaganda. They are not handing out Bibles, which IS the word of God. They are handing out Watchtowers, Awakes, tracts, books, ALL written and/or approved by that GB. 

4. What are supposed to be 'Bible Studies' but in reality are Book Studies with the possible mention of a few scriptures. Those books are written by the GB.

Proof of such is simple when certain books are removed because certain GB members were also removed. Look at the history of the JW org. 

14 hours ago, Thinking said:

They make mistakes just like any other ancient Godly men of old…just like King David did….just like Moses did…just like Peter did….

And Moses DIDN'T enter the 'Promised Land'.  Neither will the GB. But the GB state as fact that they WILL go to Heaven. A bit presumptuous ????? 

14 hours ago, Thinking said:

we just do not panic and flee when we see these errors

No indeed. In fact you comply. Continuing to hide Pedophiles in the JW org. Continuing to shun innocent victims and others that have been 'thrown out' just because the Elders do not like them. 

14 hours ago, Thinking said:

Im in..and mentally in as well…but I have always seen the GB down thru the ages are mere men who do make mistakes and are not actually inspired…so I and many others act like the beroeans did and check with the scriptures first …

Wrong. You are not exactly mentally in or spiritually in if you know that the GB are not inspired and that you do not always believe what they say. Because if you were totally in you would believe they are the F&DS and you would follow their every word. 

10 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

That is a lesson for all witnesses today…not to leave the camp because of trouble with in it even if that trouble comes from someone as high up as the second man in charge as Arron was…..actually the first man in charge whilst Moses was absent…..a thought to ponder on…

So you are telling all JWs to remain in an immoral Org and to dish out the lies from the GB. 

Come on think about it. The mid-week meetings used to tell you (probs still do) exactly what to say to people 'on the doors'. The Sunday meetings comprised of a 'Public Talk' with a GB outline, and a Watchtower written by the GB. It was all the GB's words. Not the word of God. 

And because the GB and all the other hierarchy including Elders are so self righteous, Child Sexual Abuse probably still happens in congregations and is still not reported to the Police or the 'superior authorities'. I'm still waiting to hear what has happened to that 25 year + Child Sex Abuse Database that the GB / Lawyers are hiding in their USA HQ. 

You really expect JWs to invite young families into the JW Org when the JW Org is such an immoral dangerous place to be right now ????

10 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I’m not saying that there are not witnesses who do exactly as the GB always directs thinking it comes directly from Jehovah…because there are…but there are many who sit and listen and work things out for them selves…as we have here on this site….

 No, what they do is make excuses, just as you have done, and why ? Because you and others are frightened to 'go it alone'. That shows where your faith is, in the Org and not in God through Christ. 

JWs would have offered their children to a false god, and then JWs would have said 'but we didn't burn as many children as the other nations did'.

That is exactly what JWs are saying about Child Sexual Abuse. JWs are saying 'But we don't abuse as many children as other religions do'.  I've read it on here and I would think you have read it to. 

That is the Org you are part of.  That is what you defend. 

[Dmitar]

19 minutes ago, Witness said:

Those questions should pierce the heart of every JW.

“Teacher, which command in the law is the greatest?”

Can you expand on your thought here? It appears there is some difficulty in understanding the word suicide.

Matthew 27

New International Version

Judas Hangs Himself

27 Early in the morning, all the chief priests and the elders of the people made their plans how to have Jesus executed. ² So they bound him, led him away and handed him over to Pilate the governor.

³ When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders. ⁴ “I have sinned,” he said, “for I have betrayed innocent blood.”