JW Core Beliefs .... As Applied

[Thinking]

9 hours ago, xero said:

That's rich.

I suppose it's like when you go to a door and someone wants to argue w/you about the trinity.

I ask "Have you spoken w/Jehovah's Witnesses about this before?"

HH says "Oh, yes, many times"

Then I say "Well I doubt I could be any more convincing than them. Could I ask you a question though?"

HH brightens "Sure!"

The I ask "Since belief in the trinity changes nothing as far as my own behavior is concerned, why do you suppose Jehovah's Witnesses take such an unorthodox view?"

HH pauses ...I'm imagining he's not had this question from a theological pervert before...

I ask "Are they incorrigibly unsaved or evil?"

HH "I wouldn't say that."

I ask "So are they just stupid? Or is becoming a cult member just really damaging to your brain so it doesn't work any more in a reasonable way?"

HH "I wouldn't say stupid, and maybe I'd say they're a cult, but most seem pretty normal."

Me - "Kindof odd isn't it. Something to think about. Have a great day!"

That was tongue in cheek….must say it’s a relief you have let your burka drop and now the true you is visible …

[Arauna]

11 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

ords just to admit that you don't have an answer. 

I do not have an answer for hate-OCD - it seems to be a mental condition for which there is no cure.  People have hurt the Spirit of Jehovah too much...... I will not even try to answer or help. 

[xero]

6 hours ago, Arauna said:

I do not have an answer for hate-OCD - it seems to be a mental condition for which there is no cure.  People have hurt the Spirit of Jehovah too much...... I will not even try to answer or help. 

You can see the same situation w/regard to people who lost money in an investment scheme. Now you and I wouldn't say that anything valuable was lost by becoming one of Jehovah's Witnesses, but these have, but they adopt an invalid strategy for losing value - they spend more time arguing w/Jehovah's Witnesses. It's the sunk cost fallacy. We see this sort of thing in relationships all the time. How many people who after living perhaps 17 years as minor children to less than perfect (or even terrible) parents blame their lives decades later on their parents?

I would argue that clearly these didn't feel they were getting a raw deal (in their view) until they felt they were and they felt that they wished they could have gone back in time and had a do-over. Who hasn't wished they could go back and change some decision?

Point is that it's not baffling, but in many cases it isn't useful to continue to rail (at least in an emotional way - some adopt a more studious approach and write books contra-JW's) against decisions past-made.

The other case is that these likely have social relationships which these would have likely wanted to retain, but for the decisions these have made, they can no longer maintain.

Some feel honestly that they have made the right decision and that they could simply not play along w/it all no matter the cost, while others not as sure of themselves lash out in an attempt to provoke the kind of response which would justify the way they feel.

I would say to these to perhaps consider the possibility that their own feelings are self-caused and that any happiness or sadness these are feeling are natural reactions to the way in which these events have been presented by the self to the self.

Further, if what these are doing does not yield greater comfort or satisfaction it should be asked whether these are injuring themselves because they haven't accepted that they made decisions and that all that led to them becoming Jehovah's Witnesses and them leaving as well were their own decisions as well. Are these self-flagellating in an attempt to atone for the sins they imagined they made which led them to where they are today?

[Pudgy]

13 hours ago, Thinking said:

HH "I wouldn't say stupid, and maybe I'd say they're a cult, but most seem pretty normal."

… reminds me of when I was a puppy, looking through a chain link fence at a cow next door, calmly chewing grass. She was dressed in a flowered cotton print sun dress with clashing high- heels, a large plastic snap together “pearl” necklace, and a Mexican sombrero, with large chicken feather. 
 

Obviously the work of some cult.

At least the cult I prefer dresses better!

[Thinking]

29 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

… reminds me of when I was a puppy, looking through a chain link fence at a cow next door, calmly chewing grass. She was dressed in a flowered cotton print sun dress with clashing high- heels, a large plastic snap together “pearl” necklace, and a Mexican sombrero, with large chicken feather. 
 

Obviously the work of some cult.

At least the cult I prefer dresses better!

Thinking DID NOT SAY THAT ,,,,!!!…I think you have got rabies…

[Pudgy]

uh … that’s toothpaste foam …. 
 

…… no thumbs.

 

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, Thinking said:

Thinking DID NOT SAY THAT ,,,,!!!…I think you have got rabies…[responding to Pudgy’s ‘obviously the work of a cult.’]

Witnesses plainly don’t fit the traditional definition of a cult that we all grew up with. Time was, if you fell under the spell of a charismatic leader, withdrew from society, and began doing strange things, you just might be a member of a cult.

However, the goal posts have been moved! There is a new definition of cult, and by this definition we do fit. If you belong to a group in which there is significant human authority and if you think outside of the mainstream box, you are a cult. That nutcase BITE expert thinks half the country (United States) belongs to a cult for voting for the candidate he disfavors.

So the question becomes how do you adapt to this new normal?

One way is simply refuse to accept it. “Cult” has had specific meaning for centuries, and just don’t budge from that specific meaning. The only reason it has changed is because humanists are intent upon snuffing out religion that becomes powerful through organization. If it is only a matter of uncoordinated individuals each acting (or more often, not acting) upon his or her own personal interpretation of God, that is less of a threat to them, and they are okay with it. Disconnected individuals are relatively easy to pick off or assimilate, but it is much harder with a centralized coordinated group.

Another way of dealing with the updated definition is to accept it but also point out that the Bible thereby becomes a cult manual. It plainly speaks of a first century group in which there was significant human authority. That gathering of the apostles of older men in 49CE (Acts 15) sent out decrees (decisions) to the congregation that were to be observed. (Acts 16:4-5)

A supplemental way is to revert to the original meaning of cult, for it comes from the same root word as does agriculture. Whereas agriculture is literally caring for the earth, cult in the religious sense can be taken as caring for the matters of God. I’ll take it. It is not too different from serving as ‘guardians of doctrine.’

One can also be very resourceful and turn that taunt (for that is how it is usually intended) on its head, the same way some innovative police years ago dealt with the taunt pigs. They advertised that is stood for Pride, Integrity Guts, and Service. In the same way, as applied to Witnesses, cult can stand for Courage, Unity, Love, and Truth.

The villains don’t own the dictionary. We can make as much use of it as they. In the case of hostile ex-Witnesses, we can even adapt the Freddy Mercury song:

We’re the apostates, my friends

and we’ll keep on fighting till the end

No way we’ll lost this

Be sure you choose us

Cause we’re the apostates of he world.

 

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

On 7/7/2021 at 5:30 PM, Arauna said:

I do not have an answer for hate-OCD - it seems to be a mental condition for which there is no cure.  People have hurt the Spirit of Jehovah too much...... I will not even try to answer or help. 

WE agree then that people have 'hurt' Almighty God by working against the Holy Spirit.

The ones that did so are the ones that told the Anointed 'not to gather together for prayer or Bible study' Those ones also told the Anointed that the Anointed would be 'working against the Holy Spirit'. 

Those ones also say they are the F&DS and they falsely boast that God and Christ trust them. 

Yes, it quite to clear to see who have insulted Almighty God and Jesus Christ. It is your GB and their helpers.

[Srecko Sostar]

3 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

There is a new definition

Does this exposition on the definitions of some words, mean that it is (not) quite normal for JW members to so readily accept the changed definitions in so many GB teachings, which have taken on new meanings in relation to the original ones? Because you say yourself: One way is simply refuse to accept it.

[TrueTomHarley]

6 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Because you say yourself: One way is simply refuse to accept it.

It is plain that you have done so. 

What are you bellyaching about then? You’re free to hang out with others who think as you do. Enjoy their company.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

13 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

You’re free to hang out with others who think as you do. Enjoy their company.

He is, we are, and it's fun  

[John Houston]

There was a question asked which seemed tricky at first, but once I read it again I understood it and with practicality it can be answered. The husband would have to go through life alone,until the death of his wife. Even with a divorce it does not free him to remarry. That is just common sense. There are no loop holes or other circumstances. Sexual misconduct by his wife or her death frees him to remarry. PERIOD!