Should JW's punish, disfellowship, or shun members who disagree with certain teachings?

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

"Unity at all costs" - Hayden C. Covington. Vice President of the WTB&TS, and by his own claim, a member of the Governing Body.

Willing to disfellowship someone, and EVERYONE for holding to TRUTH, when it was different from what he admitted in court, under oath ..... was false.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

6 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

28 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I remember when you refused to look at a youtube video of Kermit the Frog singing "Forever Young" I posted

In that case, it was just too juvenile. There is such a thing as adulthood, you know.

Then why did I get an "upvote" from you on the "Who Framed Roger Rabbit" Parody?

By the way, the Frog singing was as serious as a heart attack .... which you would know ..IF... you were not afraid it would melt your ears off.

You are making up excuses from clear air, with no basis in reality.

NONE WHATSOEVER !

[TrueTomHarley]

1 minute ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Willing to disfellowship someone, and EVERYONE for holding to TRUTH, when it was different from what he admitted in court, under oath ..... was false.

Well, then, why aren't you, the very ESSENCE of TRUTH, disfellowshipped? Somehow, they put up with you.

If you are to be believed, you go out in service. Why? - when you hate those who present the message so? Do you tell your students to cross their fingers at their baptism?

You go to congregation meetings and each convention. It must be pure hell for you, gnashing your teeth at every word. I don't mean to be unkind here, but....what kind of a loser does that? At the conventions, part of the delight is seeing and visiting with old friends. Who can you speak with? Doubtless there are some of your ilk, but by far - it was no contest -  the largest round of applause came after the line: "would you like to convey your greetings to Bethel?" Say - was that you I saw across the auditorium with smoke coming from your ears?

I disagree vehemently with @Albert Michelson, but I would never call him a loser. He doesn't like Jehovah's Witnesses. So he doesn't go to all their meetings. He does other things in life that presumably have brought him satisfaction. He is fighting valiantly for his point of view on this blog - it has caught his attention. But I never heard of him before, and am unlikely to hear of him again. He has a life. He is going to get back to it when this battle is done, whether he wins or loses.

[TrueTomHarley]

14 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Then why did I get an "upvote" from you on the "Who Framed Roger Rabbit" Parody?

Oh for crying out loud! How do I know? And I'm not going to retrace it all so as to recall.

[Witness]

On 8/27/2017 at 1:54 PM, Anna said:

Hmmm....I doubt that very much. Sounds more like the problem was what you cited in the Elders book. i.e. deliberately spreading teachings contrary to what  JWs teach.  

How many witnesses do you need?  I can round them up for you, but you have two right here.  

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

3 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

3 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Then why did I get an "upvote" from you on the "Who Framed Roger Rabbit" Parody?

Oh for crying out loud! How do I know? And I'm not going to retrace it all so as to recall.

Samo Lamo ... slippery as a greased eel.

[Albert Michelson]

8 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I prefer comments well-rounded, in appropriate context, and not thrust upon me by someone who so pleadingly and pathetically has an agenda

And yet you trust the WT lol

 

6 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

You go to congregation meetings and each convention. It must be pure hell for you, gnashing your teeth at every word. I don't mean to be unkind here, but....what kind of a loser does that?

One that's being blackmailed.

 

6 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I never heard of him before, and am unlikely to hear of him again. He has a life. He is going to get back to it when this battle is done, whether he wins or loses.

Well that's true idk if I'm going to frequent this site or not but it has yealded some interesting discussion. 

[Albert Michelson]

On 8/30/2017 at 8:01 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

When one has assembled the jigsaw puzzle and reproduced the box cover mountain vista, you are not easily put off by the critic who insists you have it all wrong. This is especially true if his own puzzle lies unassembled in the box.

That's a bad analogy, a better one would be a story that had been told and retold. Some have a more accurate version of the original than others. Everyone claims theirs is the original or is the most accurate and so you choose the one that you think sounds right.  You trust that the ones telling you the story have it right and so when someone presents evidence that they don't you reject them and refuse to listen. 

 

[Albert Michelson]

12 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

This is especially true if his own puzzle lies unassembled in the box.

 

Well let's talk about how well assembled your puzzle is. I'll list a few of the things I believe JWs have wrong.

 

1.The 607, 1914, 1919  teaching/s. The implications of this as I've already pointed out is that not only was the organization not selected by God in 1919 like they claim but that they've been teaching a false gospel. Galatians 1:8-9

 

2. It follows that if the 1914 teaching is incorrect then the generation teaching is also incorrect. What my bad, I mean the overlapping generation teaching.

 

3.The belief that the parable of the faithful and discreet slave was a prophecy predicting a group of guys claiming to be chosen by god in the 20th century rather than a parable applying to all Christians although especially those serving as overseers in the congregation. 

 

4.The teaching that the Jerusalem Council was a Governing Body rather than a one time meeting. 

 

5.The teaching that there are two hopes for Christians, that the 144,000 go to heaven and that only the 144,000 make up spiritual Israel. By extension this would also mean that the JW's practice of only having those who claim to be one of the 144,000 partake of the emblems is incorrect. This also ties into their teaching regarding what it means to be born again which I also believe is incorrect.

 

6.That The Scriptures it in Isaiah (that were already fulfilled) and in other places in the old testament point to God establishing an earthly paradise for humankind. I will admit that The Bible is very vague about what the new heavens and new earth will be but it's pretty clear that just as Christians will be remade in a spiritual sense so will the heavens and earth. JW's pick and choose were they decide to render the Hebrew word for time indefinite/forever as either time in definite or forever. They choose this based on their own preconceived ideas and thus they have the idea that the earth will remain forever rather than for time indefinite i.e. Until a time when it is been designated to be destroyed/remade. Almost all Christians eschatology when you get down to it technically teaches the same thing that Jehovah's Witnesses believe in with the exception that they don't believe that the earth that will be inhabited by The spiritually remade Christians is the exact same earth that we live on now. 

 

7.That Malachi 3:1 somehow had a secondary fulfillment in Charles Russell. Don't get me started on all the other type and anti-type BS that The organization has pushed on people over the years but I decided to pick that one as just one current example there are many more. 

 

8.The teaching of Christ's millennial year reign. In reality the Bible says nothing about Jesus ruling for only 1000 years. The scriptures that they point to to support this say that the ones "executed with the ax for the witness they bore to Jesus" would come to live and rule for 1000 years. It is their rule that lasts a millennium not Jesus. Revelation 20:4

 

9.The concept of "new light" especially transmitted in such a unreliable way.

 

10.The teaching that shunning is scriptural. 

 

That's all I could think of off the top of my head but there are more. Granted they're not fundamental doctrines but just little things, oh like the mass resurrection after Jesus death was just dead bodies thrown from the grave. Apparently they weren't brought back to life they were just spat out. 

 

[Albert Michelson]

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, Albert Michelson said:

Granted they're not fundamental doctrines

No. They're not.

Why harp on them, then? Who cares?

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

9 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

2 hours ago, Albert Michelson said:

Granted they're not fundamental doctrines

No. They're not.

Why harp on them, then? Who cares?

These doctrines are NOT necessary for Salvation.

But if you DON"T give lip service to believing them,  you get slandered, "banished to Coventry" and your family gets taken hostage, until you lie and say they ARE ...

.... and do it convincingly!