ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view

[JW Insider]

4 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

is the fact we are in harvest time now. 'Let the weeds grow along with the wheat until the harvest,' the Master told his workers. 'Come harvest time we'll bundle them up and toss them in the fire.'

Although I agree with everything that you expressed above the point I just re-quoted, I thought that this point had more to do with the topic, so I will comment on it:

How are we in the harvest time right now if the wheat and the weeds are still growing UNTIL the harvest? You just said that harvest time is when the bundles are bundled up, some tossed into the fire, and some bundled for a better purpose. Do you not believe that the wheat is still growing? Isn't the good news still being preached?

As you might have noticed, this is all part of the same 100% consistency among all the scriptures on the subject that point to a Parousia as a judgment event, the Synteleia as a final end involving the judgment event, and the "Harvest" also involving the judgment event AFTER the wheat and weeds are no longer allowed to grow.

[Witness]

10 hours ago, Gnosis Pithos said:

What I see is NOT that you have proven anything relating to the understanding of 1914, but rather give a lengthy opinion on why your personal belief in 1914 is in error in your mind.

I will also accept that you have contrived a clever and twisted defense to that end.

1914 is a “demonic expression” hatched from the mouth of CT Russel, and his calculations of the pyramids.  He said God told him it was the date of Armageddon.  Deut 18:20-22  When it failed, he changed his calculations.  As 1914 “grew”, it was necessary to give new meaning to “this generation” – many times over.  It now ‘plagues’ each JW as the Watchtower hangs on relentlessly to a date that has no foundation in scripture.  Rev 16:13,14

There are those who will love the clever and twisted lie originating from the mouth of Satan to fool God’s people.   2 Thess 2:9-12  Once a falsehood, always a falsehood. 

 

[TrueTomHarley]

2 minutes ago, Witness said:

It now ‘plagues’ each JW as the Watchtower hangs on relentlessly to a date

It 'plagues' non-JWs even more, as they have made no progress whatsoever in united declaring the kingdom good news.

[TrueTomHarley]

6 hours ago, JW Insider said:

How are we in the harvest time right now if the wheat and the weeds are still growing UNTIL the harvest? You just said that harvest time is when the bundles are bundled up, some tossed into the fire, and some bundled for a better purpose. Do you not believe that the wheat is still growing? Isn't the good news still being preached?

As you might have noticed, this is all part of the same 100% consistency among all the scriptures on the subject that point to a Parousia as a judgment event, the Synteleia as a final end involving the judgment event, and the "Harvest" also involving the judgment event AFTER the wheat and weeds are no longer allowed to grow.

This question is better left to others who will discuss it at greater length and with at least as much success.

Not everyone has to weigh in on everything. What - I should spend a few hours online and assume equal weight with the GB?

[JW Insider]

56 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

What - I should spend a few hours online and assume equal weight with the GB?

Not under your "true" name, but who knows, maybe you know "a nice guy" or maybe even a "Virginian" who might want to defend his beliefs?

[Ann O'Maly]

12 hours ago, Nana Fofana said:

----[Jw's agree with this Rabbinic interpretation of DanielÂ’s prophecy of “seventy weeks,”  that it equals 490 years.  Should we not be allowed to think that or say that, if we don't agree with all the Rabbinic interpretations of DanielÂ’s prophecy?

 Should all the Rabbis be allowed to agree with each other on this interpretation that seventy weeks in Daniel 9:24 equals 490 years , if they disagree with each other about other interpretations [and boy, do they!] of Daniel and other scriptures?  

And, if not , have you  informed these Rabbis and others who agree that ,"We cannot accept 490 years as being verified for certain events, while rejecting the dates for other events that have been verified by using the exact same methods and sources that were used to confirm 490 years. This would be an intellectually dishonest approach." ?????    If not, why not?  What R they?   Chopped liver?  Don't they deserve your gentle ministrations as much as we Jws do?]----

490 years hasn't been verified. 490 years is an interpretation based one how one understands the heptads. Seder Olam Rabbah sees them as 'weeks of years' running from the 1st Temple's destruction in 423/2 BCE to the 2nd Temple's destruction in 69/68 CE. As we and Jewish scholars have long known, those dates are incorrect for these two events.

It would be misleading for, say, a Christian group to claim that Seder Olam Rabbah's understanding of the 490 years verifies their own if the Christian group believed those 490 years pointed to the appearance of Jesus Christ the Messiah. Or, to give another example, claiming certain Bible scholars from centuries past put forward 606 BCE as the beginning of the '70 years' therefore this confirms Barbour and Russell were correct to use the start date of 606 BCE in their own chronological calculations.

[Witness]

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

It 'plagues' non-JWs even more, as they have made no progress whatsoever in united declaring the kingdom good news.

God, who is good, would never condone a lie.  Nor Jesus.  Jer 9:3,5; Jer 23:26; Ezek 13:19; Hab 2:18   Only men tolerate lies and can call them “good”. 

   When you preach the “good news of God’s Kingdom” you are essentially teaching the lie of 1914, which is the foundation of the organization; thus the organization is the lie that you “serve”.  Rom 1:25; Rev 2:9

km 10/14 p. 2 -  “ Conclude by reading Revelation 12:10, 12 and inviting the audience to comment on how our knowing that the Kingdom began ruling in 1914 motivates us to preach the good news with urgency.

Non JWs accept the organization for what it is, a pyramid scheme in more ways than one.

 

The “good news” is preached to “Israel”, God’s chosen ones, from all nations, tribes and tongues – including their brethren.  Matt 10:23  The Insight Book will tell you just who is spiritual Israel.  

You would be amazed at what is happening beyond your physical scope of sight. Zech 4:6

It is the “good news” that spiritual Israel – “Jacob” -  has been redeemed, purified, if they leave the lie behind.  Isa 44:21-22; Rev 18:4-8

“These are the ones not defiled with women (spiritual harlotry), for they have kept their virginity. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. They were redeemed from the human race as the firstfruits for God and the Lamb. ⁵ No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.”  Rev 14:4,5

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

During the "Middle Ages" these types of discussions consumed people for HUNDREDS of years ... and the synopsis was the phrase "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?"

I try to keep my life simple, and since no one can prove that invisible things that SUPPOSEDLY happened a hundred or so years ago, using "evidence" that can be interpreted a hundred different ways ... and all with internal reasoning that makes sense to the proponents, and, I ...having ALSO been consumed with such things earlier in my life ... have come to the conclusion that it is ALL a complete and utter waste of my time,.

Soon enough ... too soon, perhaps ... we will ALL KNOW !!!

AND ... since there is absolutely NOTHING I can do to change reality ... whatever it is ... to quote Rhett Butler ...

 "Frankly Scarlett, I don't give a damn!"

I have a long list of REAL concerns, I CAN do something about.

..based on HARD EVIDENCE.

Remember EVIDENCE?

 

[A Nice Guy]

44 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Not under your "true" name, but who knows, maybe you know "a nice guy" or maybe even a "Virginian" who might want to defend his beliefs?

I don't have to defend them. That's why they're called beliefs. Anything the brothers say.

[Vic Vomidog]

2 minutes ago, A Nice Guy said:

Not under your "true" name, but who knows, maybe you know "a nice guy" or maybe even a "Virginian" who might want to defend his beliefs?

I'm with the Irish lass. You go, girl!

[JW Insider]

1 minute ago, A Nice Guy said:

I don't have to defend them. That's why they're called beliefs. Anything the brothers say.

Might be for the best. Sometimes we get wrapped up in the idea that 1 Peter 3:15 means that we must use logic and reasoning to make a defense:

• (1 Peter 3:15) . . .always ready to make a defense before everyone who demands of you a reason for the hope you have, but doing so with a mild temper and deep respect.

But sometimes the best defense is a good offense. (I forgot the scripture citation.) And by that I mean that it's our proactive life of "living the good news" and "living the hope" as it were, which shows up in our conduct. In fact the very next idea in context is:

• (1 Peter 3:16, 17) 16 Maintain a good conscience, so that in whatever way you are spoken against, those who speak against you may be put to shame because of your good conduct as followers of Christ. 17 For it is better to suffer because you are doing good,. . .

The best way to defend our hope and faith is through our good conduct.

[The Virginian]

5 minutes ago, A Nice Guy said:

Not under your "true" name, but who knows, maybe you know "a nice guy" or maybe even a "Virginian" who might want to defend his beliefs?

I've no idea what I'm supposed to say, or even who I am. I was just minding my own business in Sheol when someone summoned me up.