Should JW's punish, disfellowship, or shun members who disagree with certain teachings?

[Anna]

If anyone cares to address questions raised by Albert I created a topic for it here:

 

 

[BroRando]

"But if you have bitter jealousy and contentiousness in your hearts, do not be bragging and lying against the truth.  This is not the wisdom that comes down from above; it is earthly, animalistic, demonic.  For wherever there are jealousy and contentiousness, there will also be disorder and every vile thing." (James 3:14-16)

"Their flesh will rot away while they stand on their feet, their eyes will rot away in their sockets, and their tongues will rot away in their mouths." (Zechariah 14:12b)  Only those already dying the second death of everlasting destruction begin the weeping and gnashing of teeth. Oh well.... they can't grasp the spiritual things and when they begin to dissolve, they cry louder....  everlasting death in the same manner as Adam and Eve, never to be resurrected......  just like the days of Noah so is the Presence of the son of man...

 

 

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, Albert Michelson said:

I care because I and thousands of others like me are currently suffering from the abusive policies of this high control group

In that case do not say "believe whatever you want, I don't care." It is misleading.

They are not so 'high control' as you imagine. There is little damage done that cannot be done provided one is not determined to saw off the limb one is sitting on. Set yourself to undo it.

[Anna]

3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

A recent couple of discussions here have shown me that, for some, almost all semblance of Christianity goes out the window when something so basic to our comfort level is threatened. There are books that discuss this phenomenon from a psychological perspective, too, and I have been surprised and saddened to see the precise, predictable patterns emerge among us.

Isn't that the truth. Cognitive dissonance.

[Albert Michelson]

34 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Set yourself to undo it.

I am, I'm trying to raise awareness so that no one else gets tricked into joining this cult.

[Albert Michelson]

2 hours ago, Nana Fofana said:

[Matthew 10: 34]  "Do not think Icame to bring peace to the earth;

 I came to bring, not peace, but a sword. 

For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and adaughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.

 36 Indeed, a man’s enemies will be those of his own household.

 37 Whoever has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and whoever has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me. 

 

  I always find it interesting that JWs try and use these scriptures to defend shunning  when in reality Jesus was warning the Christians of that time that if they left Judaism and began to follow him that their families would Shun them and cut them off.  His words indicate that if someone was intimidated by this threat and they loved their relationships with their family more than they loved him that they really weren't worthy of him. However he never encouraged his disciples to  shun their family  he is simply warning them that their families will try and use the threat of estrangement to keep them from joining the movement.

[TrueTomHarley]

7 hours ago, Albert Michelson said:

I am, I'm trying to raise awareness so that no one else gets tricked into joining this cult.

Few things in this world are less tricky than one choosing to become a Witness. One cannot do so without a lengthy period of voluntary study, seldom lasting less than a year in these parts. It is not a religion where one can impulsively "come down and be saved." Almost always, the one who studies the Bible with Jehovah's Witnesses is in familiar settings at congregation meetings and a picnic or two - perhaps 5% of one's time is in unfamiliar settings - probably less. One is always in control of one's destiny.

Though it is not my intent to denigrate college here, college is far more 'controlling' than anything JWs originate, in that it separates students almost 100% from what is familiar - a classic tool of 'brainwashing.' 24/7 campus life is a far cry from life back home. The new people of Jehovah's Witnesses trickle in only to the extent and at the rate you want them to. The new people of the college experience replace and overwhelm your former associates from Day 1 - no longer is there the stabilizing influence of family, community groups, or familiar friends.

You just don't like the conclusions JWs have come to, and you mask it with concern about their 'controlling methods.'  Those 'methods' are far less controlling than that of the greater world's system of education.

[Albert Michelson]

9 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

You just don't like the conclusions JWs have come to. It has nothing to do with the 'controlling' path they take, for it is far less controlling than that of the greater world's system of education.

 Last I checked you don't get shunned by all of your friends and family for choosing to leave college.  Or speaking out against academia. 

 You also made a false statement about the state of affairs when it comes to baptism. First off many of those who end up getting baptize are young children of Jehovah's Witnesses. So putting aside the deception that witnesses use to lure in new members  The fact that they indoctrinate their children and allow them to make a dedication before they have a chance to truly examine both sides of the issue is extremely manipulative. 

[Albert Michelson]

14 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

One cannot do so without a lengthy period of voluntary study

 It wasn't voluntary for me nor was it voluntary for many of my friends who have since left the religion. 

 I just posted this in another thread so I'm basically quoting myself.

"

I usually try not to focus on the fact that JW's baptize young children because I believe that it's wrong to threaten someone of any age into remaining a member of a religion that they no longer believe in.  That being said one of the final straws for me was sitting in an elders/ms meeting  and listening to the circuit overseer her encourage the elders to allow young children to get baptized and insisting that they set the example by getting their children baptized. 

" we don't want to teach the friends that  waiting to get baptized is a good idea" 

" we want to capitalize on young ones interest in the truth" 

 Now I'm certain that he wasn't being malicious in the statements because he likely believed that getting them to join the religion was the right thing to do.  Nevertheless JW's are continually being encouraged to baptize their children at a young ages.  In some instances the society has even implied that if a child is in baptized by the time they're able to drive a car and they asked to get a license the parent should make it clear to the child that if they are at an age when they can drive then they should be at an age to dedicate their life to the organization. The most recent yearbook mentions an eight-year-old getting baptized. It's clear to me that Jehovah's Witnesses are desperately trying to bolster their numbers to counteract the flood of defectors.  It's also clear that their primary goal is to get children trapped in the religion as early as possible.  The sooner they can get them baptized the sooner they can start threatening them with family estrangement if they try and leave. And as I said before at the very least the society hopes that the threat of disfellowshipping will  keep those who do try to fade silent."

[TrueTomHarley]

2 minutes ago, Albert Michelson said:

So putting aside the deception that witnesses use to lure in new members

Don't put aside the 'deception that Witnesses use to lure in new members' simply because you got pasted on it. Deal with it.

Or say: "well, I guess I didn't know what I was talking about."

Then bring up children on a separate thread. 

Look, @The Librarian (a fine woman) is trying to impose some order on this chaos. Cooperate with her. Don't just jump in willy-nilly with a blunderbuss

[TrueTomHarley]

While I was typing, you posted your answer. Thus, the two preceding comments should be in reverse order. They make more sense that way.

20 minutes ago, Albert Michelson said:

I usually try not to focus on the fact that JW's baptize young children because I believe that it's wrong to threaten someone of any age into remaining a member of a religion that they no longer believe in.

Okay. It's a valid question. I'll address it. 

But it will have to be later in the day, possibly even tomorrow, as I must attend to some other things. Possibly someone else will chime in. But whether they do or not, I'll get back to you.

[BroRando]

Don't go away mad...   Just go away...