WHY .... doesn't Jehovah God consider warfare ... murder?

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

33 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

People who DELIBERATELY do not read ....

.... will forever remain ignorant.

My condolences.

You are doomed to a lifetime of error, and sloppy thinking.

Maybe my spiritual thinking advises me when to stop reading certain things. 

I had read enough on this topic to know what you were saying, I don't need to know more. 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

I can always depend on you to prove, in your own words, John,  my conjectures.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

2 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I can always depend on you to prove, in your own words, John,  my conjectures.

It's not your judgement I need be concerned about. 

But a spiritual man will know that war is still murder in the eyes of Almighty God. 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

36 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

t's not your judgement I need be concerned about. 

But a spiritual man will know that war is still murder in the eyes of Almighty God. 

4J;

There is a very simple way to determine whether or not your statement is true .. or is just a cultural tradition that the unexamined mind believes to be true ... but is not.

1.) Show me a clear and unambiguous Scripture, anywhere in the Bible where God considers warfare to be the same as premeditated murder, or

2. Show me a clear and unambiguous Scripture, anywhere in the Bible, where the homicides in warfare are treated by God with the same response that is called out for premeditated murder..

If you cannot do that ... then what you know to be true in your heart, and down to your very bones to be true, is nothing but cultural acclamation, which became a part of your personality because of unexamined thinking.

...that .... is a euphemism for "fantasy".

... of no more value than KNOWING that Kryptonite will kill Superman, another cultural fantasy.

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

4 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

4J;

There is a very simple way to determine whether or not your statement is true .. or is just a cultural tradition that the unexamined mind believes to be true ... but is not.

1.) Show me a clear and unambiguous Scripture, anywhere in the Bible where God considers warfare to be the same as premeditated murder, or

2. Show me a clear and unambiguous Scripture, anywhere in the Bible, where the homicides in warfare are treated by God with the same response that is called out for premeditated murder..

If you cannot do that ... then what you know to be true in your heart, and down to your very bones to be true, is nothing but cultural acclamation, which became a part of your personality because of unexamined thinking.

...that .... is a euphemism for "fantasy".

... of no more value than KNOWING that Kryptonite will kill Superman, another cultural fantasy.

 

James, what your above comment shows is that you are a physical man not a spiritual man.

I note that you have a need to keep referring to earthly things, not spiritual ones

Therefore, as on the door to door ministry, I will just walk away and let you believe what you need to believe at this point. In six months time your attitude may be different, but right now you have that need. 

 

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

When you make up stuff out of thin air ... there is no limit to the error that seems natural to you.

You failed the simple "two question test".

The Universe will give you your grades ... without compassion or mercy.

[Srecko Sostar]

I noticed about some Bible verses and reports about some events where taking other people life is issue this:

In some events, according to Bible,  God making fire from heaven, earthquake, flood, angels warriors or similar and killed few or many people.

In some other events, perhaps there is more such reports, God told, command particular people to kill other people, under various and different circumstances.

From this we can conclude, how people who belong or think they belong to only true religion or organization can't know for sure: will their God told them to stay still and watch, or will He command them to take action. God showed two side of his will.

In old Israel they had professional soldiers, but before they came to have professional army, many were simple ordinary workers. And they learned skills. JW people today not learning such skills, but for sure learning how to use "theocratic warfare" methods .... and that can be lethal too. (Not reporting CSA to secular government and shunning policy can have for sure very bad results). 

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

In the final part of the days,*The mountain of the house of Jehovah Will become firmly established above the top of the mountains,bAnd it will be raised up above the hills, And to it all the nations will stream.c ³  And many peoples will go and say:“Come, let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah,To the house of the God of Jacob. He will instruct us about his ways,And we will walk in his paths.”eFor law* will go out of Zion,And the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem.f ⁴  He will render judgment among the nations And set matters straight* respecting many peoples.They will beat their swords into plowshares And their spears into pruning shears.gNation will not lift up sword against nation, Nor will they learn war anymore. 

Luke Chapter 10

v 29 But wanting to prove himself righteous,h the man said to Jesus: “Who really is my neighbour?”

v 36 Who of these three seems to you to have made himself neighbour to the man who fell victim to the robbers?” ³⁷  He said: “The one who acted mercifully toward him.” Jesus then said to him: “Go and do the same yourself.”

Matthew 5 v 43 through 48

 “You heard that it was said: ‘You must love your neighbore and hate your enemy.’ ⁴⁴  However, I say to you: Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those who persecute you, ⁴⁵  so that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens,h since he makes his sun rise on both the wicked and the good and makes it rain on both the righteous and the unrighteous.i ⁴⁶  For if you love those loving you, what reward do you have? Are not also the tax collectors doing the same thing? ⁴⁷  And if you greet your brothers only, what extraordinary thing are you doing? Are not also the people of the nations doing the same thing? ⁴⁸  You must accordingly be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/wp20151101/is-war-ever-justified/

Today, warring nations often appeal to God for support. But God does not take sides in today’s wars. Instead, in his Word, the Bible, he clearly states: “Return evil for evil to no one,” and, “Do not avenge yourselves.” (Romans 12:17, 19) Moreover, he has made known that mankind should “wait patiently for him” to take action, which he will do at Armageddon. (Psalm 37:7, footnote) When the nations fail to wait for God to act and instead resort to warfare, he views such wars as presumptuous acts of aggression that bring his displeasure. Thus, at Armageddon, God will express his indignation and settle the nations’ disputes once and for all by “bringing an end to wars throughout the earth.” (Psalm 46:9; Isaiah 34:2) Indeed, Armageddon will be the war to end all wars.

This whole Watchtower article make it clear that humans have no right to go to war. It makes it very clear that only God has the right to decide when and how war should take place. 

James, your own org' are showing you that human warfare is murder. 

When the nations fail to wait for God to act and instead resort to warfare, he views such wars as presumptuous acts of aggression that bring his displeasure.

If it's presumptuous acts of aggression, then it is premeditated. And war is always premeditated because it takes planning.  Premeditated killing in this way (acts of aggression) is murder.

But more importantly it is in opposition to Almighty God. 

Romans 12 v 21

 Do not let yourself be conquered by the evil, but keep conquering the evil with the good.n

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

3 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

James, your own org' are showing you that human warfare is murder. 

 

3 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

When the nations fail to wait for God to act and instead resort to warfare, he views such wars as presumptuous acts of aggression that bring his displeasure.

Jehovah views warfare as homicide ... he does NOT consider it murder ... and nothing you have posted shows that he does consider warfare the same as murder.

Nothing at all.

Interesting scriptures about all kinds of aspects to warfare, and the eventual OUTLAWING it, from God's viewpoint ... but NOTHING that shows Jehovah considers warfare to be murder.

Apparently you do NOT know the difference between homicide ... and murder .... and have ONLY your opinion to offer.

That is all.

Nothing more.

You have NOT offered a clear and unambiguous scripture to support your position ... BECAUSE THERE ARE NOT ANY..

Until you understand the difference ... you will NEVER be able to answer the ONLY thing I am interested in .. which is ... WHY?

[Arauna]

The question above is crafted very carefully  to avoid the main question: whether Jehovah allows any form of war or killing.  Especially after his Son paid the ransom sacrifice and told Peter to put away his sword - plus other scriptures which prove that christians are no part of the world otherwise they would fight.  Our fight is a spiritual warfare. Jesus was put to death because he did not become an earthly king to fight the Roman's.

Roman's 11: "  48 If we let him go on this way, they will all put faith in him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation.”

Romans 14:8  "For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah."  9 For

The  above question is designed to create a choice for either killing or murder - so no matter how  one answers it, it still looks as though war is acceptable because it is not murder.....so killing is acceptable......

A very sneaky question..... It reminds me of satan's question to eve:  you are not allowed to eat from ALL the trees in the garden......? .

[TrueTomHarley]

5 minutes ago, Arauna said:

so no matter how  one answers it, it still looks as though war is acceptable because it is not murder.....so killing is acceptable......

Does he want to eliminate the requirement that Christians refrain from wars? Is that what he is driving at?

I should take the time to figure out myself whether he is advocating that, I know, but he is not being particularly transparent, he is distracted by answering a number of dubious characters, I am always waiting for the other shoe to drop with him in the form of a staggeringly disrespectful cartoon or quote, and I am up to my ears in my own projects. Other than that, I have no excuse for not having deciphered this more accurately.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Arauna, and TTH :

It is a very simple, carefully crafted question to isolate one specific principle, from the full spectrum of high volume noise that surrounds this issue.

Most people think the Ten Commandments say "Thou shalt not kill." .... and it doesn't.

I says "Thou shalt not MURDER"

There is a very real difference between one, and the other ... just as there is a very real difference between your personal culpability if you accidentally hit a child on a bicycle while driving, and kill them .... and if you drive up onto the sidewalk, and deliberately kill the same child.

There are cases when killing IS ACCEPTABLE, should you choose to exercise your natural right of self defense, that all living things have as a natural right, and if you choose to do so, and are able to manage overcoming your adversary with deadly force ... there is absolutely no blood guilt incurred.  That is just one of perhaps several examples.

Understanding WHY one is allowable by God, and not the other ... is the KEY to understanding everything about the issue of blood guilt, or NO blood guilt, in every example that would come up in life.

It may remind you of a satanically inspired question where there is only a binary choice, like "Do you STILL beat your wife", but it is not.

My ex-mother-in-law may remind me of a Shrew, but she is not.

It is a question that when correctly answered, will give a complete understanding of our obligations toward God, what ever that might be, in a world where life and death is a daily concern.

There is a difference between KNOWING something ( which may be flat wrong) and UNDERSTANDING something, and it all depends on being able to correctly discern the actual, really true answer the question about any subject you could put forward, and that is ....

WHY?