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Does the Governing Body live on-campus or off-campus?


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1 hour ago, Matthew9969 said:

Those stats you put up include the watchtower bible and tract society estimated net worth in the billions.....just like the catholic church. And you take John 2:16 out of context which show's you have very little clue as to how some churches raise money, where as in John people were ripping poor people off by selling sacrificial animals at higher prices. Those 7 men you worship now realized how they want to live in Luxury like Benny Hinn or the Pope, fly first class, stay in 5 star hotels and don't lift a finger for the billions of dollars they control. Sounds like your jealous of them.

Just because the sheep take direction from the Shepherd when it comes to learn from scripture and in turn, use said Scripture to better themselves and or life does not mean that the sheep worship the Shepherd. For that is the role of a church leader/pastor/whatever you want to call em, and church leaders operate similarly to that of the early churches in ancient times, and how Jesus' Apostles operate to their students as well, Shepherd to Sheep, Sheep to Shepherd ; Flock to Shepherd Shepherd to Flock, thus becoming one in faith and in teaching(s).

Anyways as for those stats, they could be found just about anywhere, especially with stats containing statistics on revenue of the church, member count and the like.

The fact that you bring up John 2:16 makes me question if you understood of what it means, but I will explain it below.

There are some churches who use money to help out in their gospel, some who do it far better than others, for we have many examples of this, in some situations, the money used by the church is often use to help out members of the church and if the church is part of a religious organization, any church connected benefits from the money as well. Now if the JWs or Watchtower did use the money to build churches and maintain the church, to make their magazines, to send out aid, etc, keeping the money for themselves and only themselves, than that would be an issue, but that is only in the dreams of those who are their opponents. But the reality is JWs really do those things, even got relief efforts going on for them, aiding their brothers and sisters first, than going to help out others, Texas being an example.

And last I checked, I doubt any of those men who are the church leaders of the Watchtower even own mansions or houses, for if they remain in one spot and soon move to another spot, in this case, going back and forth, to place A, B, C, D to A again and repeating the cycle and what they all seem to care about is their teachings and that their church members having faith in said teachings, whereas ironically, some other churches today are supposedly copying the JWs when it comes to not celebrating only "some" holidays and adhering to the bible, elsewhere, people would not set foot in a JW church, however, they are open to accept magazines, bible and or any resources they could get for free from JWs and in turn, use it. You'd be surprise of how many people like, want and even learn from their magazines vs JW opponents who take them only to throw it away in the faces of JWs.

Apparently you do not really know Benny Hinn, for he generates money, yes, but majority of the money goes forwards his church, his security and bodyguards, and most of all, his house: http://virtualglobetrotting.com/map/benny-hinns-house/view/google/

We have his other house, Purchases 15,000-Square-Foot Italian Villa

villa-696x394.png

 Other pastors being examples such as: Joel Olsteen, Francis Chan, Creflo Dollar, to name a few.

Some other examples of how pastors use their money, even having reality shows and the like:

 

For Preachers like this preach do not the gospel that comes from the bible or that of the gospel that Jesus Christ preached. For they preach the prosperity gospel (Prosperity Theology) - the promise of becoming rich, monetarily and spirituality if you tithe to the church.For the money barely goes towards helping the church members, the church, or anything pertaining to relief, etc.

This includes Benny Hinn and his pals.

Regarding Creflo Dollar:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/steve-siebold/the-biggest-scam-of-all-p_b_7521170.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

Then we have silly Trinitarians (False Christians of Babylon) defending such persons and themselves:

As for John 2:16:

My Father's House Some groups (majority being Trinitarians) who misinterpret this completely fails to honestly regard the context of the passage: "Take these things away and stop making my Father’s house a marketplace." His disciples remembered that it was written, "Zeal for Your house will consume me." John 2:16-17 (see Psalm 69:9). The Temple is the Father's house, the Father of Jesus. Likewise, we are to understand that the body of Christ is the temple of God, that is, the Father's house. The Father's Word had tabernacled in human flesh (John 1:14) and the Father abiding in Jesus did the works (John 14:10).

Let the reader also observe that Jesus did not describe the Temple as his house; Jesus did not describe the Temple as the Triune God's house; the Temple was his God's house, the Father's house. The Old Testament God of Israel was the Father of Jesus and the Temple built by Solomon was the Father's House. This simple fact alone tells us that the God of the Shema was the Father of Jesus. Under the Law, the Father's house was a stone temple. But something new was taking place. The Spirit of the Father had come to dwell in Jesus and this man himself was now God the Father's tabernacle, the Temple of God. And indeed, we also read in the Scriptures that the body of Christ, the church, is the Temple of God where His Spirit dwells.

The Scriptural facts show us that his body was the Temple of God; the Word tabernacled in human flesh and that flesh was the Father's Temple. He, this body of flesh, was the Father's Word and he spoke the words of the Father. This account is about the Father's house, the Temple. Jesus' words were not his own but the Father's who sent him. This body of flesh (body of this man), His Temple, was His Word to the world. Since he was the Father's Word, there were two witnesses as according to the Law. Jesus tells us many times in John's Gospel that he spoke the words of the Father. He kept his Father's word (John 8:55) for eternal life.

For I did not speak from myself, but the Father Himself who sent me has given me commandment as to what to say and what to speak. I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told me. John 12:50

The word Jesus had spoken at John 2:19 were the words of the Father. The Father's word is "the word of life" (1 John 1:1). In the Gospel of John, Jesus is the Father's word tabernacled in human flesh. Therefore, being the Father's word, what then did you expect the Father to say when these men asked Jesus by what authority he had cleared the Temple? "Destroy this Temple and in three days I will raise it up."

 

"I am the resurrection and the life." John 11:25

 

Anyways, do you have a source for them using expensive flights and only going to 5 star hotels, as you claim? Since you did state the following:

1 hour ago, Matthew9969 said:

Those 7 men you worship now realized how they want to live in Luxury like Benny Hinn or the Pope, fly first class, stay in 5 star hotels and don't lift a finger for the billions of dollars they control. Sounds like your jealous of them.

 

 
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9 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I would be very surprised if a GB member has even stayed at a Motel 6. 

When they travel, they stay in one of the branch facilities or in homes of fellow believers. 

Possibly you can dig down and find where they were once at a fancypants place on vacation as a gift from a personal friend. But I doubt even that. I don't  think they even like that sort of thing. They like being with the friends.

JW Insider used to travel internationally WITH members of the Governing Body, and his first-hand accounts transcend your wishful thinking.

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3 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Given the scope of their responsibilities, it is sufficient that they do not fly private jet. It seems the characters @Space Merchant highlighted all do.

Would YOU get on a private Jet that had a Bethelite as a Pilot and Co-Pilot?

Brrrrrrrr........

I used to jump out of perfectly good airplanes two miles high .... but I would not do THAT.

I have only flown on a Lear Jet as the solo passenger one time in my life and the pilot asked me if I would mind if he "punched it", and I said "go ahead", and we went up at about a 45 degree angle . 

That was fun!

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Now that we've established that it's ridiculous to claim the governing body, aka gods of the watchtower live lavishly, could jw's please stop spreading lies that all of Christendom's pastors, teachers etc. live lavish lifestyles, the pastor's at my church drive minivans, live in small homes, etc and don't have anywhere near the wealth the governing body has. 

And since a jw bought it up, what is so sinful about raising money for charity through a church building?

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21 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Just because the sheep take direction from the Shepherd when it comes to learn from scripture and in turn, use said Scripture to better themselves and or life does not mean that the sheep worship the Shepherd. For that is the role of a church leader/pastor/whatever you want to call em, and church leaders operate similarly to that of the early churches in ancient times, and how Jesus' Apostles operate to their students as well, Shepherd to Sheep, Sheep to Shepherd ; Flock to Shepherd Shepherd to Flock, thus becoming one in faith and in teaching(s).

Anyways as for those stats, they could be found just about anywhere, especially with stats containing statistics on revenue of the church, member count and the like.

The fact that you bring up John 2:16 makes me question if you understood of what it means, but I will explain it below.

There are some churches who use money to help out in their gospel, some who do it far better than others, for we have many examples of this, in some situations, the money used by the church is often use to help out members of the church and if the church is part of a religious organization, any church connected benefits from the money as well. Now if the JWs or Watchtower did use the money to build churches and maintain the church, to make their magazines, to send out aid, etc, keeping the money for themselves and only themselves, than that would be an issue, but that is only in the dreams of those who are their opponents. But the reality is JWs really do those things, even got relief efforts going on for them, aiding their brothers and sisters first, than going to help out others, Texas being an example.

And last I checked, I doubt any of those men who are the church leaders of the Watchtower even own mansions or houses, for if they remain in one spot and soon move to another spot, in this case, going back and forth, to place A, B, C, D to A again and repeating the cycle and what they all seem to care about is their teachings and that their church members having faith in said teachings, whereas ironically, some other churches today are supposedly copying the JWs when it comes to not celebrating only "some" holidays and adhering to the bible, elsewhere, people would not set foot in a JW church, however, they are open to accept magazines, bible and or any resources they could get for free from JWs and in turn, use it. You'd be surprise of how many people like, want and even learn from their magazines vs JW opponents who take them only to throw it away in the faces of JWs.

Apparently you do not really know Benny Hinn, for he generates money, yes, but majority of the money goes forwards his church, his security and bodyguards, and most of all, his house: http://virtualglobetrotting.com/map/benny-hinns-house/view/google/

We have his other house, Purchases 15,000-Square-Foot Italian Villa

villa-696x394.png

 Other pastors being examples such as: Joel Olsteen, Francis Chan, Creflo Dollar, to name a few.

Some other examples of how pastors use their money, even having reality shows and the like:

 

For Preachers like this preach do not the gospel that comes from the bible or that of the gospel that Jesus Christ preached. For they preach the prosperity gospel (Prosperity Theology) - the promise of becoming rich, monetarily and spirituality if you tithe to the church.For the money barely goes towards helping the church members, the church, or anything pertaining to relief, etc.

This includes Benny Hinn and his pals.

Regarding Creflo Dollar:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/steve-siebold/the-biggest-scam-of-all-p_b_7521170.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

Then we have silly Trinitarians (False Christians of Babylon) defending such persons and themselves:

As for John 2:16:

My Father's House Some groups (majority being Trinitarians) who misinterpret this completely fails to honestly regard the context of the passage: "Take these things away and stop making my Father’s house a marketplace." His disciples remembered that it was written, "Zeal for Your house will consume me." John 2:16-17 (see Psalm 69:9). The Temple is the Father's house, the Father of Jesus. Likewise, we are to understand that the body of Christ is the temple of God, that is, the Father's house. The Father's Word had tabernacled in human flesh (John 1:14) and the Father abiding in Jesus did the works (John 14:10).

Let the reader also observe that Jesus did not describe the Temple as his house; Jesus did not describe the Temple as the Triune God's house; the Temple was his God's house, the Father's house. The Old Testament God of Israel was the Father of Jesus and the Temple built by Solomon was the Father's House. This simple fact alone tells us that the God of the Shema was the Father of Jesus. Under the Law, the Father's house was a stone temple. But something new was taking place. The Spirit of the Father had come to dwell in Jesus and this man himself was now God the Father's tabernacle, the Temple of God. And indeed, we also read in the Scriptures that the body of Christ, the church, is the Temple of God where His Spirit dwells.

The Scriptural facts show us that his body was the Temple of God; the Word tabernacled in human flesh and that flesh was the Father's Temple. He, this body of flesh, was the Father's Word and he spoke the words of the Father. This account is about the Father's house, the Temple. Jesus' words were not his own but the Father's who sent him. This body of flesh (body of this man), His Temple, was His Word to the world. Since he was the Father's Word, there were two witnesses as according to the Law. Jesus tells us many times in John's Gospel that he spoke the words of the Father. He kept his Father's word (John 8:55) for eternal life.

For I did not speak from myself, but the Father Himself who sent me has given me commandment as to what to say and what to speak. I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told me. John 12:50

The word Jesus had spoken at John 2:19 were the words of the Father. The Father's word is "the word of life" (1 John 1:1). In the Gospel of John, Jesus is the Father's word tabernacled in human flesh. Therefore, being the Father's word, what then did you expect the Father to say when these men asked Jesus by what authority he had cleared the Temple? "Destroy this Temple and in three days I will raise it up."

 

"I am the resurrection and the life." John 11:25

 

Anyways, do you have a source for them using expensive flights and only going to 5 star hotels, as you claim? Since you did state the following:

 

 

I wasn't the one to use John out of context....could you please provide me proof that the pastors of my church live lavish lifestyles or live in billion dollar compounds like the governing body?

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12 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

JW Insider used to travel internationally WITH members of the Governing Body, and his first-hand accounts transcend your wishful thinking.

I traveled with only one member of the Governing Body during the time that I was handling work assignments for him. It was only two times, and both times to Europe, so it isn't a lot of experience from which to extrapolate what other members of the Governing Body were doing. The longest trip was about 6 weeks, in 1978, during which time we visited about 12 countries, stopping at the branch offices in 10 of them and attending the "International Assembly" in the other two. After London, Paris, Madrid, Barcelona, Nice/Cannes, we split up after the assembly in Rome (in the wake of a Pope's recent death) and the GB member went to Germany, Denmark, and Sweden while I worked for a week in the branch office in Athens, and then caught up again in Hamburg after one-day stops in Bern, Innsbruck, and Wiesbaden. Then back to London, full circle.

He was traveling on WTS funds that covered flights and basic hotels for both himself and his wife. His travel and accommodations were subsidized by regular gifts he had received from speaking assignments, and these were considered personal gifts which he was able to keep for himself. He did not schedule any public talks on this one particular trip since we were traveling during the summer assembly season. During another trip, I saw first-hand that such talks could result in a lot of 'green handshakes' and even an official branch-approved collection of contributions set up just for his travel and accommodations. The Branch did not assume that a GB member wanted to stay in one of the rooms in the branch office, or at a brother's home, and a couple of the smaller branches had no extra guest room anyway. This particular GB member sometimes stayed in fully gifted resort hotel accommodations instead of the branch, but it was also a chance for his wife to take a breather -- a real vacation. I don't mean to sound sexist, but my guess is that wives probably insisted on a change of pace, away from regular branch routines. I stayed in branches or homes of local witness families, while he stayed almost exclusively in nice hotels and 'resort-style hotels.' I took the train and even slept on the train a couple times (and on a ferry from Brindisi, Italy to Corfu, Greece), while he flew most places. I think that only his NYC-to-London flight was first class, -- while my flight was something called 'Freddy Laker' to London for $99, a stand-by arrangement where I had to camp out at the airport the night before.

(So, although we would meet up at the Branch offices, it was not really the same as traveling with the GB, on that trip, at least. Of course, I am grateful that I got nearly 6 weeks "vacation" in Europe, which would have been impossible without the request of a GB member. I had only earned between 2 to 3 weeks on my own. But even here, there are "stickler" rules at Bethel, that required me to work at the branch in Athens to earn an extra week or so. Or perhaps it got me out of his hair during a time when this GB member was exploring a 'judicial case' centered mostly in Sweden.)

I know that some of the unmarried members of the GB often stayed at the branch offices. This included Fred Franz himself, who had no problem staying in whatever extra room was available, or a local brother's home. This was apparently also true of at least half of the nearly 17-member GB at that time. Flying first class and staying at first class accommodations on WTS funds was only approved for business travel for factory representatives like Larson (non-GB), Wheelock, (non-GB), Henschel, etc., as had previously been done for Knorr, Suiter, etc.

After Russel and Rutherford, life at the Bethel Home itself was only incrementally more comfortable for members of the GB, and it was apparently based on the same 'seniority' arrangement all Bethelites utilized to obtain their choice of rooms (based on years of full-time service). Of course, even though I had the same size corner room in the Towers Hotel, their extra funds allowed them to make it look like luxury for only two persons, relative to my room being shared among four of us. However, visiting and touring at Patterson, I didn't see inside any rooms, but noticed that all rooms seemed to be pretty much the same size.

Just based on experience, I don't believe GB members are given special accommodations that are that much different than any other Bethelite.

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1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

I don't mean to sound sexist, but my guess is that wives probably insisted on a change of pace, away from regular branch routines.

Hmm. It is Pastor Inqfist's wife salivating over her upcoming stay at the resort during the Lutheran minister's retreat, which they colloquially renamed 'stampede.' At long last she can sit around a swimming pool in a two piece bathing suit, sipping a drink, without triggering frowns. But then the befuddled pastor discovered he had mixed up the tickets. He has the expired ones from two years ago. The event this year has already taken place.

 

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

He was traveling on WTS funds that covered flights and basic hotels for both himself and his wife.

grumble, grumble... Well...he stayed in a Coleman tent in my back yard when he visited here.

About 3 he knocked on the door to use my bathroom. I told him that there was a perfectly fine outhouse in back. Then I made him pull my millstone, and I wouldn't let him eat off the threshing room floor.

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