ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view

[bruceq]

6 hours ago, Arauna said:

My sister (who is not a Witness) painted a beautiful painting of all the vices on earth.   And there was a very thick book on the table......   I asked her what it meant...... and she said to me:  "knowledge is a gross sin when it is idolatrous - when knowledge is self-serving."   I totally agreed.

Knowledge (as I said before) is an ego-trip when it does not serve others.  One makes yourself an idol.  The bible says: "knowledge puffs up."   Knowledge in itself puffs up..... it must be combined with the fruitages of the Spirit to produce humility, modesty and the other qualities one needs to truly be benevolent and motivate one to serve others, such as preaching!

Wisdom - is knowledge put to use to serve others and benefit others.   Jehovah in all his knowledge uses this only to benefit others.  Jesus, kept his own opinions to himself and used his wisdom to benefit others .....and only spoke the words which Jehovah gave him to speak.... Perfect obedience - not like humans who like to be on the forefront of knowledge....me included.....  I have to pummel myself and stamp out that ego sometimes.

All this bla-bla about being sophisticated and discuss all matters like intelligent adults, is just a front to self-serve personal ideas and create doubt or division among brothers.   Other churches who visit this website are doing so - not because they want to learn something - but merely to sow doubt......They oppose the slave and their ideas.  They do not care if their ideas are only from one person  - in contrast with our organization which now has committees which approve what goes into every publication.. They are pretending to be angels of light....or maybe believe themselves zealots with 'special insights' from God?

Even if you offer biblical scriptures or even good secular sources - forget it- they are here to teach - not to learn!  They are here with other motives! The thrill is in the fight... or to sow doubt! 

 

By the way - all these terrorist attacks is an escalation - intensifying of the sign.  'Security' of citizens will again be the main subject on lawgiver's minds until the next strikes - I think ...... lol.....  

Russia, Finland, USA, Spain all in a matter of a few days....

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately one of the girls killed in Finland was one of our sisters. https://www.jw.org/en/news/#newsAlerts

[Arauna]

True tom:

A brother gave a talk about preaching, and he said that Jesus took his disciples apart and explained the parables to them.  Yet Jesus avoided to answer the Pharisees, who were always trying to trick him,  except when there were people present who could benefit by his reply.

I thought it was a neat point.

To add to what you said so well: we have a saying in my language....literally translated it means :  the clever one is trapped by his own cleverness. 

 

 

 

 

[Guest J.R. Ewing]

Well, just keep in mind that Jesus is, was, and continues to be a “Perfect” son of man. So, let’s not get in the habit of comparing Jesus “disciplined” struggles with that of imperfect human, “undisciplined” struggles. That’s where Scripture comes in, to learn the difference.

But, while Jesus would not directly respond to the critics, his words spoke volumes to the people.

Matthew 23:2-4English Standard Version (ESV)

² “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat, ³ so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. For they preach, but do not practice. ⁴ They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear,^[a] and lay them on people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger.

So, Jesus criticism was made to show the difference, NOT to allow the opposition sit on Moses seat not lifting a finger. The optimum point here is “Practice what you preach”. And if one's understanding is different from that that is written in scripture? then one has a reversal of fortune in one's heart.

Romans 2:20-22English Standard Version (ESV)

²⁰ an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of children, having in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth— ²¹ you then who teach others, do you not teach yourself? While you preach against stealing, do you steal? ²² You who say that one must not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples?

So, there is NO excuse that can be made for active witnesses speaking in favor of worldly views, and NONE should be given.

If a witness can’t accomplish this, then what have they become, aside from having to lay the burden on others (STUMBLE) that they themselves are NOT willing to do?

But, this has become a pointless endeavor. Let’s move on to a different question assembled to mean the same thing. Why! 607BC-537BC 70-year desolation isn’t factual. Why it doesn’t conform to the 66-68-year captivity, and 2520 “Gentile Times” brokered by an apostate Carl Olof Jonnson that is accepted here as “fact”. Why 1914AD is NOT valid, and people shouldn’t be “dogmatic about it when the opposition is “dogmatic” (persistent) in arguing the point by stream lining the same questions over and over by rearranging the same components of their core belief with different cleverly arranged questions.

[Anna]

Yes, what Arauna said is true, humans LOVE to share their bits of knowledge, and if it’s something they’ve discovered themselves, so much more so. But it’s natural for us to do it and it’s not always bad, and nor are the motives behind it always bad.  I believe when Carl Olof Jonsson first “discovered” what he did when he researched the Gentile times, he had no bad motives. He obviously believed he had found the truth regarding that subject, and believed the WT didn’t realize they were in error. Put yourself in his shoes. Imagine how you would have felt if your “exciting” discovery was met with reservations almost bordering on indifference. His downfall was not the research, nor his discovery, nor his writing to the society about it, but his hurt ego, and pride that HIS discovery was not recognized.  We all want to be recognized for the effort we put into something, and he had put a lot of effort into it. It doesn’t feel good if someone tells you “you leave the thinking to us and you go and play in the sand”. However if someone tells you that they do not accept your opinion, that they see things differently, then humility should move us to let it go. No point in arguing or forcing our opinion on others. In the end the truth will eventually always come out.  But unfortunately he (COJ) was “trapped by his own cleverness”.

I like what one GB member said, that everyone is entitled to their opinion, and that we should respect that. We do it in FS all the time. Don’t we just love it when someone gives us the opportunity to explain some aspect of the Bible to them, but don’t we also just have to accept that it may not change their previously held opinion? It happens all the time, and we just have to move on.  Just think the many times you reasoned with someone on the trinity, and showed them the many scriptures to refute it. But we don’t stand there browbeating them until they see things our way do we?

Similarly in our brotherhood,  we are not all cookie cutter the same. We don’t all have the same opinion on everything. We may even have differing views on some aspects of the Truth. A very good friend of mine, a very spiritual and zealous sister, who doesn’t just talk the truth but she walks it too, does not believe in the new interpretation of the generation. She doesn’t go around trying tell others why not, I only know about it because we are very close. She doesn’t make a big deal out of it, it’s just her opinion after all, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I am sure there are many who do not believe in the overlapping generation and I am sure there are quite a few who are not convinced about 1914 either. Does that make them a “bad” Witness?  @Arauna if we were in the same congregation, and you knew me from here, would you avoid me? I am sure FS would be lovely with you, would you let me go with you, or would you say no, because I have my own opinion on the generation and 1914? I would really be interested to know your answer because your answer will show whether it really matters what I (and by extension others) believe regarding these subjects or not.

[Arauna]

Thanks Anna for reaching out to me.  I believe in freedom of thought and freedom of speech. My character is also known for being a free spirit...but not too free!  I am extremely friendly, always smiling and always caring and helpful - at least that is what I strive to be.  There is always something that is crazy happening around me... I like to stimulate people and get feedback (in field service - we usually have a blast!)  I like organized chaos - the artistic side of me. 

I did not grow up as a Witness but in a home with two smart parents (I was exposed to extreme freedom of thought) but life was also extremely organized.  Everything took place by the clock ...like a smooth running business. 

I was not a difficult child but inside I rebelled against any form of rigidity.  So I understand the idea of breaking out and being free and looking at new ideas or new ways of doing things.   I am always ready to read about new things going on in the world and undercurrents most people are not aware of - but I am careful to stick to limits. There are barriers I do not pass. I studied Islam - the dark sinister part of it - but realized that I must not delve too deep into satanic things.... 

Usually, when people (even brothers) do or say stupid things I do not take it seriously - people are just people and they can come up with some wild ideas or be too rigid.  I will even give it a thought........ BUT I do not dwell on bad things ...and try to stay away from things that I perceive to be disruptive, counter productive, unkind or misleading.  I usually speak my mind.... no hypocrisy! 

I also believe there are lines one does not cross - self-control very important to serve Jehovah successfully!  

When I worked for the newspaper - the best thing I learnt was to edit my own writings and cut out the ideas I liked the most....I often had to re-write....  I also wrote poetry and songs.... and this teaches one to cut unnecessary flowery ideas/words - 'self-control' in art. 

What this taught me is:  many people self-indulge in a passion with no self-control and then cannot understand why it is not presentable to others. Self-indulgence in anything is usually not good. One can go on and on.....with it - it will bring personal satisfaction - but in the end it is not perfect because it does not "share" well with others.  This is why I now prefer to study some thoughts I can share with others or say something to stimulate others - especially in the Truth. 

I often teach Muslims that the law of Jesus is more powerful than the 'Sharia' - (law of Moses or the law in islam). How?  Self-control.   Jews and Muslims just have to obey the law and there is not much thinking involved.   Jesus made us personally responsible to think about everything -before we do it.  We have to think how to apply the principles.  We have to think things through, before we do.  Looking at a women too much is adultery in the heart....self-control.

I usually feel sorry for people who seriously overstep any boundaries.... they have not learnt the lessons which I call Social Studies 101.    Jehovah created us to live together as social animals.... there are boundaries one does not cross if you want to live and work together in peace and harmony..... because one infringes on the happiness and freedoms of others.  

This why I must mention here that I have respect for some of the people on this blog - who really kept their cool when I was criticizing them.  Thanks for that!   I do sometimes test boundaries.   I go on field service and say something to test my Muslim friends to see what their boundaries are.  When I see that their minds are very closed - I work with what I have available to me....

So - I never talk about others - only if it is positive!  Yes, some kinds of people are sometimes uncomfortable around me when I push the boundaries...... but I am watchful for body language and immediately have self-control when I see it makes another uncomfortable.

I err as well and I do sometimes come across as rigid in my writing.  I do. But I think that Adam was thinking too much about a 'new idea' and should have curbed it - before it got out of hand.

I believe in personal freedom curbed by personal self-control and social responsibility.

However, the level of personal censorship now being promoted in the world is closer to fascist ideas (in some places one can now be jailed for saying of even 'thinking' something) which is going to lead to totalitarian states.

In future, to curb the extreme ideologies floating around (which is threatening the "security" of the people and the state) - they will come down hard freedom of thought. Especially on JWs because we have learnt to think differently to the rest of mankind.  We obey the governments but stay neutral to politics and refuse all interfaith.  We are also loyal to Jehovah's government and will not refrain from preaching.

[TrueTomHarley]

3 hours ago, Arauna said:

I also wrote poetry and songs.... and this teaches one to cut unnecessary flowery ideas/words - 'self-control' in art. 

though not especially relevant, I came across this witticism:

Give a man a poem and he will starve for a day. Teach him to be a poet, and he will starve for a lifetime.

[Ann O'Maly]

15 hours ago, Anna said:

His downfall was not the research, nor his discovery, nor his writing to the society about it, but his hurt ego, and pride that HIS discovery was not recognized.  We all want to be recognized for the effort we put into something, and he had put a lot of effort into it. It doesn’t feel good if someone tells you “you leave the thinking to us and you go and play in the sand”. However if someone tells you that they do not accept your opinion, that they see things differently, then humility should move us to let it go. No point in arguing or forcing our opinion on others. In the end the truth will eventually always come out.  But unfortunately he (COJ) was “trapped by his own cleverness”.

His 'discovery' was, in fact, what had long been already known and established in ANE and biblical scholarship. His downfall was believing that the Society was interested in the truth of the matter. Unfortunately, the responses from HQ were inadequate, rehashing what had already been questioned or rebutted, and they repeated platitudes and promises to address the evidence - which they didn't do. Instead, they urged him to keep quiet and instigated a nasty smear campaign against him. This is what alienated COJ from the org and caused him so much frustration and hurt.

'In the end the truth will eventually always come out'? The truth had already come out - several times before COJ's treatise. The truth had been flagged up in Russell's day, in Rutherford's day, and many times since, by those inside the org and by never-been-JWs. Even now, had COJ 'waited on Jehovah' to change matters, he would still be waiting - 40 years later. The ones who first alerted Russell to the errors are long dead now. Could it be that Jehovah has been nudging and jabbing the leaders of His people to make corrections all along, but they've been ignoring Him?

[TrueTomHarley]

25 minutes ago, Ann O'Maly said:

Unfortunately, the responses from HQ were inadequate,

That says it all, IMO. 

It is the uneasy passenger who tried to redirect the plane - for he has studied flying himself -  and the pilot's response was 'inadequate.'

[Ann O'Maly]

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

It is the uneasy passenger who tried to redirect the plane - for he has studied flying himself -  and the pilot's response was 'inadequate.'

Better the pilot be redirected and take action than to crash into a mountain.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

I like the quote by Robert A. Heinlein "A man who reads his poetry in public, may have OTHER nasty habits".

[Arauna]

LOL.  Poetry got me through my husband's sudden death and a daughter with cancer..... so it had its function...... and I had to go back to work to keep food on the table...and in the process I learnt a few more lessons about life. Particularly - when to let go.  There is a time for everything.... also to let go.

We all have ego's and want to be heard  but I honestly believe that if you have been through severe problems where you only are grateful to have a life.... you realize how precious your gift of life is ..... to have an opinion, to be seen and heard or have influence -  all that other jazz -is just the trimmings. The substance of your life is what is in yourself and what is between you and Jehovah.

We will soon face the most dire threats to our lives.   We are now facing the beginning of the escalation of anarchy.  Our lives is the only precious thing we have and this is all that Jehovah promised us - our lives.

So let GO of the unimportant grievances, unimportant hurt feelings and all the unimportant ideas. Let GO of the ego and the traps and snares it brings to our lives.  Time is running out.  Like the illustration of the 10 virgins - make sure you are one of those who have enough oil to shine your lamp while waiting for the groom to arrive.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

50 minutes ago, Ann O'Maly said:

3 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

It is the uneasy passenger who tried to redirect the plane - for he has studied flying himself -  and the pilot's response was 'inadequate.'

Better the pilot be redirected and take action than to crash into a mountain.

Yep, if you trying to go someplace, and the pilot(s) are disoriented and wrong ... and in crisis you CAN fly an airplane yourself, depending on them to be competent may get you killed.

The reason you have a conscience is to be able to evaluate calculated risks.  

If you are wrong ... you die

If THEY are wrong ... you STILL die.

The analogy breaks down at this point ... because if THEY are wrong ... you STILL die ... but THEY PAY NO PRICE WHATSOEVER!

.