ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view

[Arauna]

The reason why you cannot accept 539 BCE as the only secular date which is truly verified is because you use mainly Babylonian sources to try to verify the date and their dates are all over the place - not reliable (reigns which are too long and impossible to correlate etc.)

The Persian and Greek sources gets us to the truth.  Please look up when the battle of OPIS took place and between who....?  This took place before Cyrus went right into Babylon.

This will give you a good idea why 537 BCE is correct for the return of the Jews to Jerusalem - which in turn proves that 607 BCE and 1914 is accurate.

The reason for the 'myopia' is an inability to accept that the slave (very imperfect and uneducated though they may be) may just have made a big mistake and accidentally got it RIGHT - because Jehovah was guiding them. The problems came when someone's ego got the better of them and they abused their power and were removed.... 

All the knowledge in the world cannot fight against the knowledge of Jehovah... and he can use his spirit to assist who he wants?  When a "mistake" (some people used their influence to say it is a mistake) turns out to be spot on later - as more historical facts were opened up - is it not quite revealing?  Don't you agree? 

Even if you feel you have "special insight" this does not mean that you have.   The ability to show the 'fruits' is cooperation, to subject your free will to Jehovah and help with the preaching work - become a slave of Jehovah and help the rest of his "slave".  (A slave has no personal power but has to do as he is told - the preaching).  Personally I would refuse to go out with someone who does not accept that Jehovah is guiding his people or "recognize" the 'slave' because we have to "help" our brothers with the commission they were given.

ANOTHER important question: How would you run such a large organization as ours when you have no special business training and you are responsible for the management and written content which goes out into the entire world; massive operations on a large scale and all on donations.....You have to try to manage other problems in congregations too - on top of millions of laws in every different country etc etc.  Did they fail in some aspects or re-act instead of being pro-active?  Of course they did.  CEOs do not even get it right...

CEOs which earn literally millions of dollars per year do not get it right and move around from company to company (we know what is going on in the banking industry and many Fortune 500 companies - don't we?)  and.......they do not have to cope with Satan's focus on them, trying to undermine the smooth daily operations set in place.  Some upstart - which you trusted and put in a trusted position - comes and wants to disrupt everything and starts a little group because he now has superior insight and becomes rebellious.  (Satan did the same thing to Jehovah because Jehovah is mild tempered and kind).  I think those put in place of responsibility would be hurt and shocked but in the end would guard the heritage of Jehovah -  put this first.  Would you not? And there will be some who will be taken in by this rebellion - will they not? 

Our history was not clean from the start - we recognize that completely.  And while they Russel and friends fumbled in the dark they accepted teachings from other religions which were in line with scripture.  In their ignorance they were determined to be guided to bring the truth to others. The immortality of the soul was one of the first teachings they rejected and we all know the reason why Russel stopped publishing with his associates and went out on his own to create the watchtower.

It was only after some cleansing of their teachings (Jehovah inspected them - where does that fit in with your dates?) that Jehovah appointed them as the slave.  They will guard the heritage they have received and try to keep the organization clean from anyone who tries to destroy it.

Has everything gone perfect in its management - NO.  Was there injustices - maybe?  But the main focus should be the preaching and the vindication of the true name of god and his promises.

I suspect we will see many more actions by Satan to discredit Jehovah and his organization (run by uneducated, imperfect men) before the final end - and he will use brothers with the spirit of Judas to do this.   If anyone in this circle does not think that we are going to have a terrible time of it - think again.

The forces of Satan is stacking up against us and the world has become a very violent place - and it is escalating. When they finally lash out at us they will be happy to find some soft target to vent all their anger against. 

LAST THOUGHT:  Is there any other Christian organization on earth which is unitedly preaching the good news of the kingdom as indicated in prophecy about the time of the end in Matt 24:14.    The proof is there!  To me it is a miracle!  

There are so many secret organizations with most of the worlds money in their pockets, who want the world to be united in ONE government.  There are many religions who want to rule the world and are prepared to use the sword to obtain it.  There are forces moving in the EU and the UN which is trying to bring in laws to control all people.  When this happens - we will be told to stop preaching.... and our neutrality will also become an issue........ it will be an attack.... but we will see great apostasy before this.  

 

 

 

 

[Ann O'Maly]

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

The reason why you cannot accept 539 BCE as the only secular date which is truly verified is because you use mainly Babylonian sources to try to verify the date and their dates are all over the place - not reliable (reigns which are too long and impossible to correlate etc.)

The Persian and Greek sources gets us to the truth.  Please look up when the battle of OPIS took place and between who....?  This took place before Cyrus went right into Babylon.

OK, Arauna, walk me through this. How do you verify that it was indeed 539 BCE when Babylon fell to Persian armies?

Do you agree with the Babylonian source that the battle of Opis occurred in Nabonidus' 17th year (although the year is actually broken off)?

Assuming that the missing year is indeed '17' (and there is good reason to believe so from the tablet's format), how do we go about tying Nabonidus' 17th year to a modern calendar year? Do you have any suggestions on how we can do that?

If you do not believe the Babylonian source about the Opis battle and the fall of Babylon, what alternatives do you propose for establishing 539 BCE as the correct year?

[Arauna]

Ok M'dear,

Thanks Nana for quoting: The Babylonian Chronicles: Classification and Provenance

There are many sources which gives the end of Cyrus' rule as 530 BCE. To quote " Insight on the Scriptures:

"The date of 539 B.C.E. for the fall of Babylon can be arrived at not only by Ptolemy’s canon but by other sources as well. The historian Diodorus, as well as Africanus and Eusebius, shows that Cyrus’ first year as king of Persia corresponded to Olympiad 55, year 1 (560/559 B.C.E.), while Cyrus’ last year is placed at Olympiad 62, year 2 (531/530 B.C.E.).

Cuneiform tablets give Cyrus a rule of nine years over Babylon, which would therefore substantiate the year 539 as the date of his conquest of Babylon.—Handbook of Biblical Chronology, by Jack Finegan, 1964, pp. 112, 168-170; Babylonian Chronology, 626 B.C.–A.D. 75, p. 14; 

Cyrus died 530 + 9 year rule over Babylon before he died - he conquered Babylon in 539 BCE. Which is also the year for the battle of OPIS according to Babylonian Chronicles. This date is accurate!

 

Regarding a comment the other threads:

I do not buy this idea that a totally innocent person was dis-fellowshipped.   Although brothers are asked not to 'talk' about things - there must have been witnesses to some unbecoming or compromising situations or behavior - and these witnesses could have spoken out of place - given reasons secretly to friends.... and it spread like wild fire.    

I was not there but I firmly believe that when people start deviating from the straight and narrow path and repeat this behavior (it is a practice of a behavior not a mistake which gets a person dis-fellowshipped)  then Jehovah (and the angels) usually gives them time to confess - AFTER which he withdraws his spirit.  When people lose Jehovah's spirit they become arrogant,  defiant or put themselves in opposition to the organization.  So there could have been other behavior which triggered a Judas-like attitude - apart form the disagreements about time-lines. 

Judas was practicing a wrong attitude for a long time because he was stealing money over a time period. He could have confessed but he kept it secret - which lead to him to become so angry when satan entered him- and he betrayed Jesus.

 

 

 

[bruceq]

I know this is a bit off topic but I heard in a talk about 7 years ago that Joseph's generation mentioned in Exodus 1 was 126 years long. Does anyone know how he arrived at that figure. Thanks.

Here is the talk at 20 min into it:

 

Pender Joseph - Know that the End is Near.mp3

[JW Insider]

2 hours ago, Arauna said:

Regarding a comment the other threads:

I do not buy this idea that a totally innocent person was dis-fellowshipped.   Although brothers are asked not to 'talk' about things - there must have been witnesses to some unbecoming or compromising situations or behavior - and these witnesses could have spoken out of place - given reasons secretly to friends.... and it spread like wild fire.    

I was not there but I firmly believe that when people start deviating from the straight and narrow path and repeat this behavior (it is a practice of a behavior not a mistake which gets a person dis-fellowshipped)  then Jehovah (and the angels) usually gives them time to confess - AFTER which he withdraws his spirit.  When people lose Jehovah's spirit they become arrogant,  defiant or put themselves in opposition to the organization.  So there could have been other behavior which triggered a Judas-like attitude - apart form the disagreements about time-lines. 

Judas was practicing a wrong attitude for a long time because he was stealing money over a time period. He could have confessed but he kept it secret - which lead to him to become so angry when satan entered him- and he betrayed Jesus.

I'm happy to see Ann O'maly engage in the conversation about 539. From what I have seen, she is much more well-read on the subject than I am. I may have some questions for her, too.

But I think this other portion of your post was directed at something that I wrote:

I would agree that there is always a reason that a person is disfellowshipped and it's usually something like what you describe. The process usually works, and the more often than not, the person disfellowshipped understands that they were in the wrong and the congregation was right to take action. This is how I have always seen it work in a congregation setting. I have agreed with every congregational case I have seen, even though I have heard about some that I would have disagreed with, as would most of us.

But I think the information you are are probably missing is that, from 1979 to 1982, there was a completely different style of justice inside of Brooklyn Bethel. 50 were dismissed in one day about 2 years before I got there. When I first arrived, Brother Knorr was using a style very much like Rutherford before him. The method was to talk to the entire Bethel family and rant and berate brothers who crossed him. Or, at breakfast, to announce dismissals right there on the spot for stealing, adultery, fornication, etc. Not a week would go by without something like this. If you saw an older brother doing hard sweaty work in an unlikely place for an old man (like a bindery or a hot laundry job, or something that seemed demeaning), there was always a story behind it, and it was usually about something he had said that crossed up against a more powerful brother's ego.

When Knorr died, several wonderful older brothers (like CQ, the editor of the Awake! magazine, for example) started getting invited back to Bethel after having been dismissed in the previous 5 to 10 years or more. Sometimes, even their adult children or relatives were also now allowed to work at Bethel. Persons were suddenly recalled from their factory and toilet-cleaning jobs and put back to work in the responsible positions they had held during Knorr's administration. Even A.H.MacMillan, one of the persons imprisoned with Rutherford in 1918, the person who wrote Faith on the March, was berated and humiliated for daring to have the audacity to write a book. (Even though --or perhaps because-- it was a book that everyone wanted and loved.)

So there was a mindset at Bethel about justice that was quite different from a congregation setting. It had developed from 1917 to 1977. A lot of the talk at Bethel from overseers reflected the language of the army, and those in the "rank and file" often saw discipline that seemed to follow army patterns. So it was not a surprise to see a kind of bunker mentality and "military tribunal" style judgments -- especially when "apostasy" was suspected. These were usually quick, on the spot, judgments. I have to admit that I paid close attention to what was going on because I knew that I had associated with persons like Brother Schroeder, Brother Sydlik and Brother Swingle who I was afraid might also find themselves on the chopping block, too. (Brother Sydlik was also serving time as an overseer relegated to the factory, the only Governing Body member assigned there, and there was a Knorr-Sydlik story behind it.) Sydlik and I had talked about chronology issues, and 1914-talk was one of the things that F.Franz was cracking down on based on comments at 'morning worship.' Sydlik, in fact, warned me that "we" (meaning he and I, both) had to watch what we say from now on because the "tongue can start a wildfire." Schroeder had "apostate" views about 1914 and the "generation" and had even spread them at his talks he gave on his trips to other countries. I was reporting directly to him on research projects at this time. He knew he could be in trouble himself, but protected himself by taking over as the prosecutor, and setting up actual "tribunal" committees to handle interrogations that only resulted in dismissals and disfellowshippings at his say-so. People joked that he was using "Star Chamber" techniques, and literally offering "plea deals" for information about higher-ups. Neither my roommate or I ever got one of these interrogations, but 4 of my friends did, and about 10 of my roommate's friends did. No one was joking when they called them "Inquisitions."

Altogether, I don't know how many recanted, or finally got disfellowshipped, or just dismissed or just demoted, but everyone seemed to get a different deal. Schroeder was in a flurry of activity and I had to leave several times when tribunals reported back to him. But in any group, there are always going to be some ego-driven persons who pride themselves on their so-called knowledge, and spread beliefs, or reveal things about others, not out of concern or love, but out of maliciousness, or to cause contentions and division.

I think that it's probably very difficult for most of us to distinguish whether there is any difference between the kinds of doctrinal differences we might discuss with others.

For example, let's say that one person here, I won't say who , appears to be going off the deep end about all the issues surrounding 1914. He claims that it is because he sees the possibility that we are taking a false step in terms of following the Christian teachings of not serving for a date along with the rest of the counsel in Matthew 24 & 25, or not producing works motivated by fear of an imminent judgment,  or not being presumptuous in proposing to others that Jehovah has blessed us with specific revealed knowledge about the times and seasons, etc., etc., etc.

But let's say that another person, who might have also proposed some beliefs that are different from the doctrines of his fellow Witnesses, claims that he knows for sure that the last days are over in 2034, the 144,000 will all be picked within a few years of that point, and that by 2054, the judgment day begins.

Those two examples might both appear just as equally "apostate." At the very least they both could appear to be equally motivated by persons who believe they are better or smarter than the Governing Body.  In fact, the 2034 proposal might seem to be a little less apostate, because it is slightly more in line with the general teachings of JWs, and it surely won't be that far off anyway. And the one who wants to drop the 1914+generation formula altogether is hoping for something much more drastic and disturbing because it, to some, attacks the core of our ministry.

So, I understand and expect the response to this that I have been receiving -- or even worse. I just hope that people will look into it and share their own reasons in defense of their faith and hope. Although you appear not to believe it, I will accept the Biblical evidence over the secular evidence any day. So far, I still see that we (Watch Tower publications) are stuck on pieces of the secular evidence, and have been using this secular evidence to try to override the Biblical evidence and Biblical counsel. I think it's always important to look more deeply into any issue like that, even to look into how it started and why we have held onto a tradition that positions itself in such a way. But I understand completely that most of us won't see it the same way. I certainly don't expect any accolades or respect for bringing up the subject. But I do think that for reasons of conscience, concern and love for the brotherhood, and faith in Jehovah, that it's important to discuss it in a serious manner.

• (Philippians 4:8) 8 Finally, brothers, whatever things are true, whatever things are of serious concern, whatever things are righteous, whatever things are chaste, whatever things are lovable, whatever things are well-spoken-of, whatever things are virtuous, and whatever things are praiseworthy, continue considering these things.

 

[Ann O'Maly]

2 hours ago, Arauna said:

Ok M'dear,

Thanks Nana for quoting: The Babylonian Chronicles: Classification and Provenance

There are many sources which gives the end of Cyrus' rule as 530 BCE. To quote " Insight on the Scriptures:

"The date of 539 B.C.E. for the fall of Babylon can be arrived at not only by Ptolemy’s canon but by other sources as well. The historian Diodorus, as well as Africanus and Eusebius, shows that Cyrus’ first year as king of Persia corresponded to Olympiad 55, year 1 (560/559 B.C.E.), while Cyrus’ last year is placed at Olympiad 62, year 2 (531/530 B.C.E.).

Cuneiform tablets give Cyrus a rule of nine years over Babylon, which would therefore substantiate the year 539 as the date of his conquest of Babylon.—Handbook of Biblical Chronology, by Jack Finegan, 1964, pp. 112, 168-170; Babylonian Chronology, 626 B.C.–A.D. 75, p. 14; 

Cyrus died 530 + 9 year rule over Babylon before he died - he conquered Babylon in 539 BCE. Which is also the year for the battle of OPIS according to Babylonian Chronicles. This date is accurate!

Well, you've just repeated others' conclusions on what the BCE years were. How did these scholars reach those conclusions? What were their sources?

The Insight book includes a comment that 539 BCE for Babylon's fall can be derived from Ptolemy's canon. But Ptolemy's canon only has a list of kings' regnal years - not BCE dates. The same is true for the Olympiads - they are not BCE dates. How can we tie BCE dates to the regnal years and Olympiads? Do you have any proposals?

IOW, there is a missing link in the chain of evidence:

• We have Cyrus' rule over Babylon totaling 9 years;
• We  have Cyrus' 1st year corresponding to Olympiad 55, Year 1, and his last year corresponding to Olympiad 62, Year 2;
• We have the battle of Opis and Babylon's fall in Nabonidus' 17th regnal year.

So how do we convert this data into a BCE calendar time-line?

[bruceq]

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

 

 

. But in any group, there are always going to be some ego-driven persons who pride themselves on their so-called knowledge, and spread beliefs, or reveal things about others, not out of concern or love, but out of maliciousness, or to cause contentions and division.

• (Philippians 4:8) 8 Finally, brothers, whatever things are true, whatever things are of serious concern, whatever things are righteous, whatever things are chaste, whatever things are lovable, whatever things are well-spoken-of, whatever things are virtuous, and whatever things are praiseworthy, continue considering these things.

Sounds familiar. And I agree wholeheartedly with the Phil. 4:8 test. That should be our moto for this entire thread.

BTW I think perhaps the "day and hour" that is unknown is the "Beginning" of the Great Tribulation rather than the end of it at Armageddon. If you look at our publications about 85% of the times it mentions this Scripture it has reference to the "beginning of the Great Tribulation".  Of course we will not know for sure until the end but it is interesting that whenever Eve was created after 4026 BCE that the angels , Jesus and even Satan knew the exact "day and hour" she was created and would know the beginning of the Millennium right after Armageddon {6,000 years]  but NOT the beginning of the GT. It is like knowing that a movie is 2 hours long but NOT knowing when the "last scene" of the movie "begins". Just a thought to ponder.

Also I believe that since 1914 was when "peace was taken away from the EARTH" that the Red horse in REV. 6 is talking about 1914 when it mentions the exact same thing. A GLOBAL war.  But maybe that is just me. 

[Witness]

“Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 

1914

“Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.  He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.” 2 Thess 2:1-4

“Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time?”  Matt 24:45

Matt 25:19-30

"It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. ⁴⁷ Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. ⁴⁸ But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ (1914, and those previous ) ⁴⁹ and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. ⁵⁰ The master of that servant will come on a day when he does NOT expect him and at an hour he is NOT aware of. ⁵¹ He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."  Matt 24:46-51

The wicked servant “beats” his fellow servants with help from the man of lawlessness, who has set himself in and over God’s holy Temple, the anointed servants.  Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22; Rev 11:2  The man of lawlessness comprises those who “represent” God’s anointed priesthood, the elder body.

Wt. 02/8/1 “Representing the royal priesthood are appointed elders, who serve in positions of responsibility in congregations of Jehovah’s people around the earth.”

“It opened its mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place  (God's Temple) and those who live in heaven. ⁷ It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.”   Rev 13:6,7

“He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time.  Dan 7:25

“When we loyally obey the elders and other brothers appointed by “the faithful and discreet slave,” we show that we want to help Christ’s brothers.”  Wt 15/3/15

Should God’s anointed priesthood obey a false priesthood?  Should ANYONE obey someone God has not appointed to carry out His decrees?  Lev 10:1; Deut 24:8; Mal 2:7; Ezek 44:7,9 ;Lam 1:10; Jer 51:51; Matt 24:15,16; Luke 21:24; Acts 21:28; Rev 11:2  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=+Lev+10%3A1%3B+Deut+24%3A8%3B+Mal+2%3A7%3B+Ezek+44%3A7%2C9+%3BLam+1%3A10%3B+Jer+51%3A51%3B+Matt+24%3A15%2C16%3B+Luke+21%3A24%3B+Acts+21%3A28%3B+Rev+11%3A2&version=NIV

 ^“And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.”  2 Thess 2:8

 “‘But the court will sit, and his power will be taken away and completely destroyed forever. ²⁷ Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of all the kingdoms under heaven will be handed over to the holy people of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey him.’ Dan 7:25-27

“He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority.”  Acts 1:7

Obviously, God’s Word in the matter carries little or no weight in relationship to man’s fabrications taught as law in the organization. 

 

 

 

 

 

[bruceq]

26 minutes ago, Witness said:

Biblegateway

You quoted from a religious website that is number 1,061 in ranking. I am sure you can do better.

Test:

 

(Philippians 4:8) 8 Finally, brothers, whatever things are true, whatever things are of serious concern, whatever things are righteous, whatever things are chaste, whatever things are lovable, whatever things are well-spoken-of, whatever things are virtuous, and whatever things are praiseworthy, continue considering these things. 

[Anna]

10 hours ago, Arauna said:

All the knowledge in the world cannot fight against the knowledge of Jehovah...

Very true

10 hours ago, Arauna said:

and he can use his spirit to assist who he wants?

Yes, no doubt about that

10 hours ago, Arauna said:

When a "mistake" (some people used their influence to say it is a mistake) turns out to be spot on later - as more historical facts were opened up - is it not quite revealing?  Don't you agree? 

It is revealing, I agree. And then there are other things that have been put forward as undeniable truth, which later turned out as being a mistake.

It's like you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't, except the opposite. We always seem to be right whether it's a mistake or not. That is the general impression I get, but I'm not sure if this attitude has scriptural support...

[JW Insider]

5 hours ago, bruceq said:

BTW I think perhaps the "day and hour" that is unknown is the "Beginning" of the Great Tribulation rather than the end of it at Armageddon. If you look at our publications about 85% of the times it mentions this Scripture it has reference to the "beginning of the Great Tribulation".  Of course we will not know for sure until the end but it is interesting that whenever Eve was created after 4026 BCE that the angels , Jesus and even Satan knew the exact "day and hour" she was created and would know the beginning of the Millennium right after Armageddon {6,000 years]  but NOT the beginning of the GT. It is like knowing that a movie is 2 hours long but NOT knowing when the "last scene" of the movie "begins". Just a thought to ponder.

It's a curious idea. There was a lot of speculation about this 6,000 year cut-off for many years as you are aware. The idea that the angels would have known the exact time of the 6,000 years seems so obvious. For the speculators, it's odd that this fact escaped their notice. But this idea is also interesting because for many years the Watchtower taught just the opposite, that we could know the beginning and not the end. In fact the beginning of the tribulation was timed to 1914, with a break in the tribulation that would last either a few months or a few years, and now, of course, until nearly just before Armageddon.

Another thought to ponder is that this whole idea that there was some significance to 6,000 years or 7,000 years came to us from Christendom. Perhaps no two creative days were the same length, perhaps some a few years, some a few million years. The Bible doesn't say they how long they were. And the idea that the 7th day would be 7,000 years is never in the Bible either. It was a thought that came to us from "speculators" in Christendom. We have absolutely no Biblical reason to think it might be some exact number of years divisible by 1,000. We don't even have scriptural reasons to say that the millennium must happen within the 7th day. What if the 7th creative day, the day of rest, is 7,326 years long. But no matter how long it is, it doesn't seem likely that its length would determine any portion of the time of judgment day, whether it be an early judgment beginning with a "temple inspection" or the final day of judgment. Remember that the warning about coming as a surprise also referred to the day of judgment that swept upon the people of Noah's day who weren't paying attention, and it was the day of judgment that swept upon the people of Lot's day who weren't paying attention, and it would also refer to the day of judgment that swept upon Jerusalem, when very few were paying attention.

• (Mark 13:35) . . .Keep on the watch, therefore, for you do not know when the master of the house is coming, . . .

This was not about the tribulation specifically or some invisible presence, it was about the time when the master comes in judgment, right?

[Anna]

20 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

COJ did the same thing the Watchtower is being accused of. Aligning the dates to fit his agenda.

What was COJ's agenda?