ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view

[bruceq]

Just now, JW Insider said:

Spiritism and astrology have had in influence on a lot of our words. Speaking of "influence," consider how the word "influenza" was also a reference to how a certain illness was due to the "influence" of bad stars. And speaking of "consider," the word comes from Latin for concerning oneself "with the stars" con=with + siderial=star, although that one could have been made up by some "lunatic" (influenced by the moon). And even "chronology" is from the god Saturn who was "Chronos" in Greek, the god of time.  Ultimately we even get words like martial from Mars, and more obvious ones like mercurial, saturnine, capricious (Capricorn), jovial (Jove/Jupiter), venerial (Venus)

Love your library.

Yes and to the ancients who did not understand science a visiting comet would be quite a spectacle even more than an solar eclipse would be. And bolides making impact or even a close call like the one in Russia a couple years ago may have caused a "DI ASTER" or even a Global Deluge. 

[JW Insider]

1 hour ago, The Librarian said:

 please do some splitting off of separate yet interesting topics.... your thread has been hijacked. ;-)

You think I can control this thing? I'm at least half the problem!

[edited to add:]

Notice: Since this thread is so long. I might be splitting off some of the unrelated topics to other threads. I just learned that I can do this, so I will only move my own at first to get used to this awesome power. Also, I have no interest in moving around every little comment that people make just because it's off topic. There would be no point to breaking off to a musical-themed thread, for example, because I don't think anyone expected to start a full-blown discussion on that topic. But there have been a few topics that might be interesting as stand-alone topics.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

How can you say that the world isn't Jewish .. when the Sun's first name is Sol ?

[Queen Esther]

1914  is not a count from Jehovah !  Its only from elders, humans. Like 1975 etc. etc.  We NOT shall making our own counts, bec. it was so often wrong !  Many JW left the truth after that wrong counts   Made NO sense...  Jehovah's counts are okay,  but not human counts.  Why humans / elders, always want counting this and that?  So often it was wrong...  awkward for JW and the world-people laughing over us !  Thats not what we want. I have spoken with different brothers and elders too. I realized, the elders not want, that special things coming to public,  hmm...   not just honestly.  We're a jw. humanely org. and making mistakes, imperfect, thats it. Jehovah knows that.  HE  is watching all, we're today HIS  loving children???

My laptop has again since some hours NO internet by my stick and camping area ;-(   Only my iPad flatrate is working !  I hope, tmw again little better !

So I say Good night to all, bec. its late enough... ???

[Ann O'Maly]

10 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

The battle of Opis is insignificant to the argument for the date 539BC.

Not entirely. The battle occurred in the same year as Cyrus conquering Babylon. @Arauna commented that the year 539 BCE is "the only secular date which is truly verified," and that "you" (whomever she was directing this to) cannot accept that it's "the only secular date which is truly verified" because "you use mainly Babylonian sources to try to verify the date and their dates are all over the place - not reliable" and that Persian and Greek sources are more truthful [Arauna's full quote in context]. It was at this point she mentions the battle of Opis - apparently unaware that the record of this battle is found on a Babylonian source.

Quote

Their own historians show Cyrus entered the city of Babylon without incident in OCT of 539BC. Line (17).

Indeed. However, seeing as Arauna took it on trust that the correct year for both the battle of Opis and Babylon's fall was 539 BCE, even though none of the ancient sources give modern-day BCE dates but have their own methods of keeping track of time (e.g. regnal years and Olympiads), I was wondering if she knew how the BCE dates were arrived at; how we know it was 539 BCE as opposed to, say, 541 BCE or 535 BCE or any other year. I'm still interested in what Arauna has to say about this.

Regarding your piece about Cyrus and his wife dying and his decree and the Jews' preparation to leave, yadda, yadda - we discussed all that already in another thread which can be summarized in this post.

Quote

So, if BM 90920 is in question, then the "rest" of the chronicles are also suspect. Can't pick and chose what one is willing to accept and argue! 

The Cyrus Cylinder isn't really one of the chronicles - it's classed as a royal inscription. But that nitpicky detail aside, you are quite right! We have to take on board all the evidence and not just the parts we like.

 

[Melinda Mills]

Like when they go off topic a bit. The ladies seem to stick to the hard work as in their daily lives, while the gentlemen, sometimes like rambunctious kids in older bodies, veer off to speak of other interesting things like musicals, poems, etc., to rest their brains from the hard grind of the topic.  They know how to relax, even if it means shooting at another, using strange language (TTH, JTR) but JWI always uses good language and puts in a few puns for fun in between.  Men always know how to have some fun.

[Ann O'Maly]

Feel free to opt out of this 'hijacked and redundant' thread at any time, @AllenSmith

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

14 minutes ago, Nana Fofana said:

10 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

How can you say that the world isn't Jewish .. when the Sun's first name is Sol ?

That's a deceptive partial quote of  respected scholarship.^

“And Tar Heel fans liked it so much they bought, in a barely a year, about 3,000 ‘Duke Is Puke…’ stickers, a figure that rivaled ‘If God Is Not a Tar Heel, Why Is the Sky Carolina Blue?’ (and topped ‘Teach a Young Child to Hate State.’)”

— From The Charlotte Observer (Nov. 30, 1980)

I am completely missing how  the references you made have anything to do with what I knew as a comedy line off of an LP comedy album in the 1960s.   Of course, my entire sense of humor was formed in my early years by MAD Magazine, which upon refection had at least as many "Universal Truths" as most of the drivel today that is only self-aggrandizing fluff pieces.

But, a great piece of philosophy embedded itself into my psyche from MAD Magazine ....

"WHAT, ME WORRY?"

 

[TrueTomHarley]

 

2 hours ago, Melinda Mills said:

The ladies seem to stick to the hard work as in their daily lives, while the gentlemen, sometimes like rambunctious kids in older bodies, veer off to speak of other interesting things like musicals, poems, etc., to rest their brains from the hard grind of the topic. They know how to relax, even if it means shooting at another, using strange language (TTH, JTR)

Now you've got it!

11 hours ago, bruceq said:

Yes and to the ancients who did not understand science a visiting comet would be quite a spectacle even more than an solar eclipse would be.

That sun that went behind the moon the other day - shouldn't it have emerged by now? Have I done anything wrong? Is it from @The Librarian? No more musical poems, I promise.

Do I have cause for concern? Stop citing music LPs, @James Thomas Rook Jr., or you may have to learn the hard way, as I have!

[The Librarian]

@Melinda Mills understands this playground 

I always appreciate your straightforward answers Melinda.  

[Ann O'Maly]

1 hour ago, Nana Fofana said:

[Wikipedia quote] Similar problems face other attempts to revise secular dating (such as those of Peter James and David Rohl) and mainstream scholarship rejects such approaches. Where and how the Gregorian or Julian calendric differential gets factored in, remains another argument entirely."...

It should be noted that James's revisions are for years before 950 BCE (the time of Solomon), and Rohl's revisions concern years prior to 664 BCE (Assurbanipal's sacking of Thebes). Both these researchers agree with the established neo-Babylonian chronology of the 7th and 6th centuries BCE - the very chronology that, along with the scriptural evidence, is problematic for 'all aspects of the 1914 doctrine.'

 

1 hour ago, AllenSmith said:

The cross over with reliance from Persian to Greek to Babylonian is centered with the opposition not being able to answer a simple question on the discrepancy between the Babylonian Historical facts, between Nebuchadnezzar 1 (1125BC toward his supposed chronicled son Belibni of Nubuchadnezzar1 born in 685BC. A 440-year difference.

The simple answer to the simple question is that Belibni is not recorded as being the son of King Nebuchadnezzar I, so there is no discrepancy. So I'll ask again, what is the source for the information indicating otherwise?

[Arauna]

I agree: It is remarkable that Israel won their wars under almost impossible circumstances just after the creation of their own country 1947.  I admire them as a people. They are on the forefront of new technologies and have turned Israel into a agricultural productive country where it was a wasteland before. I also see that the Muslim lobby has created hate groups against Jews at present.....(They believe Jews are apes and pigs).    However...., What I do not agree with is: that most Christians tout this as the reason why they think that Israel is still the true nation of God and send them large donations.

Very few people go back in history to look for the  links with the  Rothschild family (promises to them that Israel shall receive their own state after the break up of the Turkish Empire).   The Belfour declaration and its links with a certain letter written by the then British Prime Minister (Wilson) to Mr. Rothschild after he (Rotschield) made promises to get America included in the war. This was at the time Germany called for an armistice - before America came into the war.  

The entire situation before the first world war with Lenin and Trotsky (real name: Lev Davidovich Bronstein) and the fall of the Russian king etc. and the call from the Jews to boycott Germany so that they could not sell any of their products produced in a labor based economy in any other country of the world. It was also in this time that the FEDERAL Bank was created 1913.  Money and war colluding!  This is the history of the world.... and the innocent suffer.

Similarly at present: there are rich people behind the scenes backing their groups on the ground with big money, who in turn pressure the governments in certain ways (far-left and far-right groups).  Then there are religions who are now riding the beast....and also receiving large amounts of money from the middle east etc..

So it helps to find out the history behind the history  - then you will not be gullible to believe that any government is innocent or people of God.    They are all  "beastlike".