REPROOF FROM THE PLATFORM

[Srecko Sostar]

3 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

What do you call stealing someone’s spirituality

well, how about ...... Organized/Institutional  Religion ?!

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

1 hour ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Keep in mind JAMES THOMAS ROOK JR and remember you insulted me first in the other thread when you called my commentary delusional when I made NO direct connection toward anyone.

You are correct BillyTheKid46 anonymous avatar, whoever you REALLY are:

You did not make a direct connection of your insults to me, immediately preceding that delusional commentary, which was not intended as a direct connection by insult to you.  

I was responding to a well established pattern of you calling people and their concerns garbage, fools, and cowards, etc., and your generalized sanctimonious condemnation of those posting here that think differently than you, that you consider spiritual dullards.

However, it was not my intent to insult you ........  merely highlight your delusional commentary.

I apologize for any insult.

[Srecko Sostar]

5 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Do you honestly believe Jesus started to organize a Body of Christ? What perception do you understand the role each individual has within that Body?

Scripture states there would be false prophets. Therefore, false religion. Your stance in this matter is, the Watchtower is a false religion, even though by far, the Watchtower has embedded itself and adhered to the original teaching of Christ. All the magazines, books, publications center around that ideology, through scripture and it's interpretation. So, why haven't you asked yourself, why haven't other religions followed the Watchtower to become a faithful part of the body of Christ?

.... let somebody please remind me how has ended One and Only True organized/institutional Religion started in 1513 B.C.E. under Mt. Sion? (corr at 11.59 SINAI) ......... type and anti type example? or mere, simple, reality fact and evidence of .... something?:))

...or we can go by this road too: Jew religion existing until today. And by this Observation that Institutional Religion not ended by Jesus Death as some interpretations of NT verses implied. What this talks to us? That this religion is still One and Only True because JHVH was (and still He is) source and origin of It?

[JOHN BUTLER]

Quote @BillyTheKid46 However, I do find it strange that John and James hone in on the same thing, my avatar. Can you explain, John why you haven't mentioned or call out the avatar of JWinsider, and Anna? or is it just another dense thought coming out of your head. I can see the true mental state your in. 😁

I see that Billy and TTH take their lead from the GB of JW Org. It's a bit strange how the GB, pretending to be the 'Faithful and discreet slave', yet accuse people of being mentally ill. However we can see here that some JW's act like parrots and use the same type of speech. The GB have obviously, deliberately used this idea of saying people are mentally ill, if such ones do not worship the GB and it's Org. And it can be seen to have worked well for the GB, as those that do worship the GB and it's Org are now using the same expressions. What does this show ?  Well it seems to have shown that the GB and it's Org have misled and twisted the minds of a lot of JW's. These JW's will now say and do anything that the GB and it's Org tell them to do. This is obviously not serving God or Christ, it is serving the GB and it's Org. 

Back to one of Billy's points, that i hone in on his avatar. Billy may not want to remember but I have said previously that I cannot fully understand why anyone would want to hide behind an avatar. I've also said that i do not give serious attention to the comments of people that use avatars. However, when i upvote a comment, that is what i am doing, I am upvoting that particular comment, and when I thank a person for a particular comment, that is what I am doing, i am thanking a person for that particular comment. If Billy said something that I thought was right and sensible i would upvote it, in fact I think I have done so in the past. It matters not to me if a person should want my upvote, I do it anyway if I find the comment makes sense.

Regarding @Anna I have said that I do not understand her as she seems to comment from 'both sides of the fence', but that is good I suppose as she is viewing both sides, whereas I am only viewing for the outside now. 

@JW Insider is just that i suppose. A JW that is prepared to give true information to us.  So i can see a reason for the avatar. 

But the funny  thing is when i think of all of you. I do not know who is male and who is female due to avatars. I suppose it should not matter really  

But to me Billy's and TTH's main problems seem to be that they do basically worship the GB / JW Org / Watchtower, and therefore will not have anything bad said against those things, even if the criticism is constructive and true. 

They seem not to believe that those Soc/ Orgs have dictated to the congregants that the congregants must believe everything the GB says, without question. And therefore the congregants are led along by false teachings some of the time. 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Do you think God abolished organized religion because ancient Israel broke God's laws time and time again? If he had, don't you think the Temple of David would not have been built.

It seems how He was "abolished" ( in several different ways) religion, made by Him alone, repeatedly, as you noticed too. One of the reason for that was  the manner of how The Representatives of god aka Priesthood and Nation aka People practiced religion. He also made practical moves to abolished any other Organized Religion in the Jew's  neighbourhood. 

For second part about Temple, it was very clear from The Very First Reaction made by god, (and in my opinion, the very first reaction or gut, first response, is in most cases true and authentic)  that He is NOT Interested for Temple aka Church aka Fixed Place for HIM ...... or, as my opinion, for Institutional  gathering of people inside such Structure - Building. God was felt happy to be with Israelite in the Tent (as Theirs and His Home). 

 

[TrueTomHarley]

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

TTH's main problems seem to be that they do basically worship the GB / JW Org / Watchtower, and therefore will not have anything bad said against those things, even if the criticism is constructive and true. 

This is so silly. It is so infantile. 

Every project needs leadership. Once you grant persons that leadership, you refrain from undercutting them at every step. Why in the world should that be so hard to understand?

You don’t set 15 rows back and swipe at the bus driver, “you missed that turn, you could have avoided that pothole, you hit the brakes too hard, why didn’t you know there was a roadblock ahead?” You know that the roads are poorly maintained, that the route is unfamiliar, and that the weather is terrible.”

There are any number of things I am not crazy about with regard to the theocratic organization. If you read with any sort of critical skills you would know that. That does not mean that when I appear on a forum where the majority seek its destruction and level one attack on it after another, I will say “you know, you’ve raise a good point there.”

 

 

[Witness]

18 hours ago, Anna said:

I don't think we do that anymore do we?

I think it bears asking, why has the organization EVER practiced it.  If the children's activity page that I attached is any barometer of the present climate, I would say, yes they are still practicing it .  Can you imagine your child's face as he connects the dots of the agonizing  picture of Lot's wife  turning into a pillar of salt?  "Mommy, look!  I finished it!" , he beamed.  

Jesus must be appalled.  

The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 2 Pet 3:9

 

 

[JW Insider]

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

@JW Insider is just that i suppose. A JW that is prepared to give true information to us.  So i can see a reason for the avatar

My avatar was just a quick frame grab from one of the Society's videos. It's of interest to me, because the video is about the attitudes of various Christians who were considering whether and when to get out of Jerusalem in the time just leading up to its destruction in 70 C.E. Some were concerned about keeping their businesses going, or other mundane interests, and some were ready to leave it all immediately upon first indication of the Roman siege.

My first name I chose for the forum was the "Bible's Advocate" (about 4+ years ago, now) and I was just about to create that name for participation here (originally jw-archive.org) when I realized that there were several people at the time who were making incorrect assumptions about what it was really like at Bethel in the 1970's and 1980's. I was surprised that anyone would just make up things about people at Bethel during that time period (or repeat things that others had obviously made up). So I thought perhaps I would just stick with talking about my own experiences and opinions based on working inside the JW headquarters (Brooklyn Bethel) during those years. So at the last minute I changed my name to "JW Insider" without really thinking through how it might sound to others.

I haven't really liked the name, but after leaving it for a few weeks, I decided it would be confusing to change it. I never wanted to use my real name because I knew that I would probably be giving details of certain experiences at Bethel and in congregations I have been in over the years. This would not only identify me, it could lead to identifying the persons I speak about or quote. Not all the persons I speak about would want to be identified. So, with some important exceptions, I don't usually identify a specific brother or sister I give details about, unless that person has died.

[TrueTomHarley]

34 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

My first name I chose for the forum was the "Bible's Advocate" ....So at the last minute I changed my name to "JW Insider" without really thinking through how it might sound to other

In the spirit of full disclosure:

I wanted my online name to be just Tom Harley, but I found that it was already taken on various platforms. So I thought of RealTomHarley, but I didn’t want to be confused with Trump. So I settled on TrueTomHarley.

It has a certain ring to it that squares with us referring to the faith as “the truth,” but I did not choose it for that reason.

[TrueTomHarley]

39 minutes ago, Witness said:

Jesus must be appalled....”The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.” 2 Pet 3:9

“but, to you who suffer tribulation, relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance upon those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus.” 2 Thess 1:7-8

I’m not one to pound verses like this to death, but there is something to be said for not misrepresenting scripture, particularly when you claim to own it, presume to explain it for everyone else’s benefit, and quote it more than everyone else here combined.

[JOHN BUTLER]

Quote @TrueTomHarley " Every project needs leadership. Once you grant persons that leadership, you refrain from undercutting them at every step. Why in the world should that be so hard to understand? "

So Tom, did you grant the GB leadership ? Did you make the GB into the 'Faithful and discreet slave' ? 

Being God's true representatives here on Earth is not just any old project. Surely it should never even be compared to worldly projects.

So, yes, some kind of organisation in needed. However you know me and how I go back over things soooo much. So I'm back to that scripture about the 10 men - Jew 

American Standard Version

Zechariah 8:23 (ASV) Thus saith Jehovah of hosts: In those days [it shall come to pass], that ten men shall take hold, out of all the languages of the nations, they shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.

 

My personal opinion is that the GB are not that 'Jew' .  So i haven't 'granted those persons that leadership'. 

And I would suggest that they granted themselves that leadership. You didn't 'vote them in' did you ?  

 

Maybe you should consider what exactly a person is taught when they start having a 'Bible study' with JW's.

 

I would say that they are not taught the 'workings' of JW Org.  People believe that they will be studying God's word, but in fact they end up studying Man's word from a book, which only losely considers God's word. 

 

Many of the books that have been used as study books are now long gone and would cause embarrassment to 'modern day' JW's. The GB hide this by saying they have 'new light'.  

 

So whereas you may like to say I have mental illness and am infantile, I think I have reasonable thinking ability and at this point I have made a fair to good choice to not be part of the JW Org. 

 

Just a couple of points Tom before i go. To quote you 

That does not mean that when I appear on a forum where the majority seek its destruction and level one attack on it after another, I will say “you know, you’ve raise a good point there.”

 

First point. Do you really think it is the aim of most on here to totally destroy the JW Org  ?

2. Does that then mean that Jesus was seeking the destruction of the Pharisees when he criticized them ?

3. Why  then are you on this forum ?

4. Will you ever say on here, “you know, you’ve raise a good point there.” ? 

 

Have a great day Tom and all of you. 

[Witness]

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

“but, to you who suffer tribulation, relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance upon those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus.” 2 Thess 1:7-8

I’m not one to pound verses like this to death, but there is something to be said for not misrepresenting scripture, particularly when you claim to own it, presume to explain it for everyone else’s benefit, and quote it more than everyone else here combined.

Firstly, you totally missed the point.  A child is finding pleasure in revealing the face of one who is being destroyed.  He has connected the dots, combining pleasure with the image of death.  Who would devise such an activity for a child? Who would create such a sick joke, or jest , on children; God, or Satan?  Jesus, or Satan? 

God is the judge, Satan is the destroyer, not Jesus.  God gives plenty of warning when destruction upon His people is imminent; and for those who refuse to listen, He removes His protection from them, surrendering them to the Destroyer. 

Woe, you destroyer never destroyed, you traitor never betrayed! When you have finished destroying, you will be destroyed. When you have finished betraying, they will betray you.  Isa 33:1

When the Lord goes through the land to strike down the Egyptians, he will see the blood on the top and sides of the doorframe and will pass over that doorway, and he will not permit the destroyer to enter your houses and strike you down.  Exod 12:23

By faith he kept the Passover and the application of blood, so that the destroyer of the firstborn would not touch the firstborn of Israel.  Heb 11:23

They had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon and in Greek is Apollyon (that is, Destroyer).

Not one of these descriptions refer to Jesus.

2 Thess 1:5-10:  All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering.⁶ God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you ⁷ and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. ⁸ He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. ⁹ They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might ¹⁰ on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people (the anointed faithful remnant) and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.

I don’t own scripture.  I don’t own the Word of God, which is “fire”, and how truth is revealed in the last days.  “Fire” represents God’s word and carries judgment with the sentence of punishment, voiced by Jesus and those whom he “sends”.  Jer 23:29; Matt 13:40-43; Mark 9:37

Satan, however,  will carry out the “destruction”, not God or Christ.  This will happen before Satan is then destroyed.   1 Cor 15:26

Woe, you destroyer never destroyed, you traitor never betrayed! When you have finished destroying, you will be destroyed. When you have finished betraying, they will betray you.  Isa 33:1

Jesus is life.  John 14:6  He does not relish destruction. Don't you remember when he wept over the coming destruction on his people?  He wept!  Luke 19:41-44

 On the other hand, one of your GB members cannot stop talking about death before hundreds, perhaps thousands of children.  Below is only one instance of his fascination with destruction and killing.  I am thinking about a recent talk he gave on WT's version of Armageddon and how "amazing" all of that destruction on mankind would appear.  Anyone amazed by death and suffering has no part in the the spirit of life coming from Christ.  John 15:4; Col 2:18,19; Heb 12:15,16; Rev 8:10,11   

 

 

So Jesus again said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. ⁸ All who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. ⁹ I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture. ¹⁰ The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly. John 10:7-11

 Your leaders are thieves, preferring the darkness of destruction; while robbing all JWs from the light of life in Christ. 

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.  John 3:18-21