The truth about Armageddon...

[Witness]

34 minutes ago, BroRando said:

Not only is Jesus the Destroyer but he grants Salvation to those who obey him.

If Jesus is the destroyer, then he will be destroyed.  Isa 33:1

You may as well remove the book of Job from your Bible which is a witness that Satan is the Destroyer.

[BroRando]

10 minutes ago, Witness said:

If Jesus is the destroyer, then he will be destroyed.  Isa 33:1

You may as well remove the book of Job from your Bible which is a witness that Satan is the Destroyer.

¹⁴  Later he expelled a speechless demon.m After the demon came out, the speechless man spoke, and the crowds were amazed.n ¹⁵  But some of them said: “He expels the demons by means of Be·elʹze·bub, the ruler of the demons.”o ¹⁶  And others, to test him, began demanding a signp out of heaven from him. 

 

¹⁷  Knowing their thinking,q he said to them: “Every kingdom divided against itself comes to ruin, and a house divided against itself falls. ¹⁸  In the same way, if Satan is also divided against himself, how will his kingdom stand? For you say I expel the demons by means of Be·elʹze·bub. 

 

¹⁹  If I expel the demons by means of Be·elʹze·bub, by whom do your sons expel them? This is why they will be your judges. ²⁰  But if it is by means of God’s fingerr that I expel the demons, the Kingdom of God has really overtaken you.*s

[BroRando]

@Witness

Proverbs 10:29

The way of Jehovah is a stronghold for the blameless one, But it means ruin for evildoers.

Isaiah 6:11

At this I said: “How long, O Jehovah?” Then he said: “Until the cities crash in ruins without an inhabitant And the houses are without people And the land is ruined and desolate;

 

Ezekiel 21:27

A ruin, a ruin, a ruin I will make it. And it will not belong to anyone until the one who has the legal right comes, and I will give it to him.’

Jeremiah 15:6

‘You have deserted me,’ declares Jehovah. ‘You keep turning your back on me. So I will stretch out my hand against you and destroy you. I am tired of feeling pity for you.

[BroRando]

@Witness

Ezekiel 28:14

I assigned you as the anointed covering cherub. You were on the holy mountain of God, and you walked about among fiery stones.

Ezekiel 28:16

Because of your abundant trade, You became filled with violence, and you began to sin. So I will cast you out as profane from the mountain of God and destroy you, O covering cherub, away from the stones of fire.

[Chioke Lin]

14 hours ago, Arauna said:

I need to warn you that there are apostates on here - unfortunately. ....they twist things very much.  I am glad to see that you stand up to them in such an admirable way and correct any deviant thoughts.  Satan is a deceiver - so a thing may look right but on closer inspection it is leading the one without discernment astray.

We have to be mindful when using certain words, especially when using a lexicon.

Take for instance the word Abbadon. We can see it is linked to destroyer. However, can the word "destroyer" actually be applied to an intent. Instead, we would have to think of the proper intention as "destruction" or "ruin."

There are many ways to express it without damaging the context.

ABADDON [Heb ˒ăbaddôn ( אֲבַדֹּון )]. Derived from Heb ˒ābad, ―became lost,’’ ―be ruined, Destroyed, ”perish,” Abaddon has a variety of nuanced meanings.

A poetic synonym for the abode of the dead, meaning ―Destruction,‖ or ― (the place of) destruction.’’ Abaddon occurs in parallel and in conjunction with Sheol (Job 26:6 and Prov 15:11; 27:20). It is also found in conjunction with Death (Job 28:22) and in parallel with the grave (Ps 88:12—Eng 88:11).

Although a place of mystery which is hidden from human eyes, Abaddon is clearly known by God (Job 26:6; Prov 15:11). It is twice personified: (1) along with Death, it speaks (Job 28:22); and (2) along with Sheol, it is insatiable (Prov 27:20). It is also remote: in Job 31:12, adultery becomes ―a fire that consumes unto [as far as] Abaddon.” See also DEAD, ABODE OF THE.

In Rev 9:11, the word ―Abaddon‖ is personified as ―the angel of the bottomless pit.‖ It is also identified as the king of the demonic ―locusts‖ described in Rev 9:3, 7–10, and is explained for Greek-speaking readers as Apollyon (Gk apollyōn), “destroyer.” The LXX usually translates Heb ˒abaddon as Gk apōleia, ―destruction‖; the Vg renders it as Latin

perditio, ―ruin, destruction‖ (whence Eng ―perdition, ‖ which ordinarily means “hell”); in Syr (Peshitta), the cognate word means ―destruction, ‖ and is sometimes used in the Psalms to render ―the Pit, ‖ which is another OT synonym of Sheol. In rabbinic literature, the word has come to mean the place of punishment reserved for the wicked.

Current English versions render this word variously in the OT: “Abaddon,” ―Destruction/destruction, ‖ “he place of destruction,” ―Perdition/perdition, ‖ ―the abyss, ‖ ―the world of the dead.‖ In the single NT occurrence, the word is consistently transliterated as ―Abaddon.‖ HERBERT G. GRETHER

Then, according to the bible, Jesus will cause the destruction of all evil on earth, and will ruin Satan in the process. Some Bible dictionaries have a simple notation. This is why, the best evidence is a complete descriptive. Then we can see the word "destroyer" is not being used in its proper syntax.

The word "destroyer" alone has an evil intent. That's not Christ. Jesus intent is to purify the earth again from evil, as God the father intended.

[Witness]

6 hours ago, Peter Carroll said:

when the destruction comes by the hands of the Jesus in one of His many roles ,as THE DESTROYER ,

 

“For the Lord will pass through to strike Egypt, and when he sees the blood on the top of the doorframe and the two side posts, then the Lord will pass over the door, and he will not permit the destroyer^[e] to enter your houses to strike you.^”  Exod 12:23

^[e]  Here the form is the Hiphil participle with the definite article. Gesenius says this is now to be explained as “the destroyer” although some take it to mean “destruction”

A.               (Hiphil)

i.to spoil, ruin, destroy

ii.to pervert, corrupt (morally)

iii. destroyer (participle)

Would Jesus pervert or corrupt anything?

Heb 11:28 –  ^“By faith he kept the Passover and the sprinkling of the blood, so that the one who destroyed the firstborn would not touch them.” 

Still thinking this is Jesus as the destroyer and corrupter, ruiner, perverter?

1 Cor 10:10 – “And don’t grumble as some of them did, and were killed by the destroyer”.

“destroyer” - a ruiner, i.e. (specially), a venomous serpent:—destroyer.

Who is the venomous serpent?

Rev 12:9- “So that huge dragon—the ancient serpent, the one called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world—was thrown down to the earth, and his angels along with him.”

The Destroyer is Satan.

Jesus told us HE IS NOT THE DESTROYER in John 10:10.

Why don’t JWs believe his words?

 

 

 

 

[Arauna]

James: 1

¹² There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?

The destruction of any human is only righteously due (from the viewpoint of Jehovah or his Son, who will judge the sheep and goats at time of the end). Jesus has been given the right to resurrect humans - so even if Satan or his associates have in some unrighteous way put someone to death (destroyed him so that his body decays, has a destructive process in the grave), it is not everlasting destruction or spiritual destruction, when the person is resurrected by Jesus. 

Many of those who were destroyed by Jehovah are not in Gehenna but in Sheol. Take as an example Dathan and Abiram. Moses wrote that the earth opened up and they went down "alive into sheol". Numbers 16:31 and 33. The Assyrians also went into sheol. Ezekiel 32: 21 an 22. So, not all destruction by God is necessarily eternal.

On the other hand all deliberate blasphemers will go to Gehenna - everlasting destruction / oblivion.

Everlasting destruction is righteous when Jesus leaves someone in death forever - Gehenna.  The wicked angels and Judas have been judged to go into Gehenna.   There is an unrighteous destruction  and a righteously judged destruction.  Adam went straight into the second death did he not?  The Canaanites were so wicked that archeologists wonder why god did not destroy them sooner..... but Jehovah used another nation as his tool to destroy them.  He also did this to Juda when their wickedness was so great - Babylon became the executioner.

Jesus is the image of his father.  While he is love (like his father) he is also destruction to those who disobey the father.  Revelation 19: at war of Armageddon he will act as a destroyer of all those who have morally and physically ruined the earth and sided with the enemies of Jehovah. 

rev 19:19 + 20 "And I saw the wild beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the one seated on the horse and against his army. ²⁰  And the wild beast was caught, and along with it the false prophet that performed in front of it the signs with which he misled those who received the mark of the wild beasti and those who worship its image. While still alive, they both were hurled into the fiery lake that burns with sulfur."

Jehu was anointed and given command to destroy the house of Ahab, so he was not blood guilty for following the command of Jehovah.

Jehovah has a purpose to destroy the entire world of wicked people at Armageddon and the executioner is Christ, riding on his white horse symbolizing righteous warfare. Just like in the flood, the earth will be cleansed. Unfortunately at this point in time people do not fear Jehovah as they should and go on eating and drinking and paying Him no attention.

I think there is more than enough evidence that Jehovah can destroy and Jesus can destroy ..... but they do this when someone has been righteously judged.  Not in all cases is It necessarily everlasting destruction, except at Armageddon.. 

Revelation 20: 1 - 3 clearly indicates that an angel of Jehovah has the key to the abyss. 

 

[Arauna]

2 hours ago, Witness said:

Jesus told us HE IS NOT THE DESTROYER in John 10:10.

 This is what John 10:10 says:

¹⁰  The thief does not come unless it is to steal and slay and destroy. I have come that they may have life and have it in abundance. 

[BroRando]

3 hours ago, Witness said:

The Destroyer is Satan.

 ¹³  For we are going to destroy this place, because the outcry against them has indeed grown great* before Jehovah,d so that Jehovah sent us to destroy the city.” ¹⁴  So Lot went out and began to speak to his sons-in-law who were to marry his daughters, and he kept saying: “Get up! Get out of this place, because Jehovah will destroy the city!” But to his sons-in-law, he seemed to be joking.

As dawn was breaking, the angels became urgent with Lot, saying: “Get up! Take your wife and your two daughters who are here with you, so that you will not be swept away in the error of the city!”

Nobody can escape Jehovah's Sovereignty, unless a way out has been made for you. (1 Cor 10:13)

 

[Witness]

8 hours ago, Arauna said:

This is what John 10:10 says:

¹⁰  The thief does not come unless it is to steal and slay and destroy. I have come that they may have life and have it in abundance. 

And what do you see in that scripture?  That Jesus is contradicting himself by saying he both slaughters ("slay") and destroys?  Who was behind the slaughtering of the Lamb of God? The Pharisees, an evil generation whose father is the liar.

"He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not uphold the truth, because there is no truth in him. "  John 8:44

  Who sacrificed his life in order to bring people eternal life to those who believe in him?  And now, you ALL are calling Jesus the murderer.

JWs lead people into the organization with the truth that there is no literal, fiery, eternal burning in hell.  Instead, they have created a replacement, a literal bloody slaughter on men, women and children in Armageddon by Jesus. They have glorified it, in pictures.  Jesus showed his love for people while on the earth, by teaching them that love be practiced by all; not destruction. He wept over the coming destruction of Jerusalem.  But all of you, have taken that love and twisted it, by putting Satan’s lust for destruction, onto Jesus. 

In your Armageddon of blood, what will Satan be doing while Jesus is slaughtering?  Sitting back and watching Jesus do the dirty work?

1 Pet 5:8 - Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.  (“devour” – drink down, swallow up, DESTROY)

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. ⁷ The Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?” Satan answered the Lord and said, “From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it.”  Job 1:6,7

Within the parameters God set, Satan the accuser and murderer, was allowed to test Job.  Job 1:9-12

Under that test, Job thought the persecution was committed by God.  In your Armageddon, you believe that the bloodshed will be committed by Jesus, and NOT by Satan who seeks to devour/destroy.

Jer 19:5 – “They have built places here for worship of the god Baal so that they could sacrifice their children as burnt offerings to him in the fire. Such sacrifices are something I never commanded them to make. They are something I never told them to do! Indeed, such a thing never even entered my mind.”

Deut 12:31 - You must not worship the Lord your God the way they do!  For everything that is abhorrent to him, everything he hates, they have done when worshiping their gods. They even burn up their sons and daughters before their gods!

Jesus said his word will be the judge in the last days. 

“The one who rejects me and does not accept my words has a judge; the word I have spoken will judge him at the last day.”  John 12:48

“Now Enoch, the seventh in descent beginning with Adam,  even prophesied of them, saying, “Look! The Lord is coming with thousands and thousands of his holy ones, ¹⁵ to execute judgment on all, and to convict every person of all their thoroughly ungodly deeds that they have committed, and of all the harsh words that ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”  Jude 1:14,15

To “execute judgment” means to “make” or “bring forth” judgment. He never said he will come to destroy.  That is where Satan the Destroyer steps in when God removes His protection, just as in the case of Job.  You realize, don’t you, that there is a protective spirit over the entire world?  If it wasn’t there, Satan would have destroyed everyone, and the earth long ago.  God’s protection has allowed the development of the holy administration in the “sons of men” to reach completion.  (Rom 8:19-22; Zech 4:7; Dan 2:32-35; 7:9,10,21,22,26,27)

Through Jesus’ servants, we learn that war is spiritual in the form of truth against lies; and Armageddon is a war of decision-making in the “valley of decision”.  (Eph 6:10-17; Joel 3:11-14; Jude 1:14,15)

Will you continue to believe that Jesus is the destroyer, or will you open your eyes and realize that Satan, the master of deceit and destruction, has all of you fooled?

 

 

[Chioke Lin]

Since John in John 10:10 is referring to Jesus being the good shepherd, how can this passage be interpreted?

Once again, the word “destroy” is used. What bible example can we link with John?

Jeremiah 23:1 New International Version (NIV) The Righteous Branch 23 “Woe to the shepherds who are destroying and scattering the sheep of my pasture!” declares the Lord.

Ezekiel 34:3 English Standard Version (ESV) 3 You eat the fat, you clothe yourselves with the wool, you slaughter the fat ones, but you do not feed the sheep. English Standard Version (ESV)

So, what’s the theme in John? God’s sheep. We know Jesus sacrifice was to benefit mankind, so the evil intent of a thief could not benefit from that sacrifice.

The word "destroy" is losing its biblical value by being overplayed. This is why I like the Danker, Greek NT Lexicon. It brings a fuller application to the bible.

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

I've never seen so many pathetic JWs as there are on here.

All acting like children in the playground. All singing the same song.

"You are apostates, you serve satan" The JWs sing it over and over again. 

No real answers so they sing this silly song. 

Then, instead of giving praise to GOD through Christ,

They give praise to the JW org.  So who really are the apostates ? 

Who really have turned their attention away from YHWH and Yeshua, and are now serving an organisation ?  

It is you that need to be careful.